Wrecker wishlist of mods

[Csm Davis]

View attachment 672866

Nice one bud, i see you are watermarking your drawings now? Did someone steal cotton tops drawings?

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[red]

View attachment 672866

That would work but would take alot of modifications. What I'm talking about would require no mods to the stock winch/pulleys. Heres a very quick, very ugly drawing in ms paint. Don't spew your coffee on the keyboard when looking at these fine, artistic abilities haha.



Green is the boom. The grey circles are the stock winch and pulley. Red is the second winch concept that I'm talking about. Red circle on the left would be the second winch. Red circle on the right would be it's pulley mounted to the main boom. If needed could easily mount it to the end of the inner boom using the pin location that the stock winch uses for a double line rigging.

 

[Csm Davis]

The winches will likely rip out what ever they are hooked to... a BFT is going to become an uprooted Tree shortly,,,,,,,,, I have nightmares about this day......

I have sunk a wrecker 936A1 to the bumper going downhill, worst possible scenario and yeah it pulled every pinetree we hooked to, by the way why use tree savers when you are just sucking the whole thing out of the ground? Finally got all but 5 wraps off rear drum and hooked to massive oak approximately 12-15' in circumference and pulled it out backwards,that big oak was shaking like king Kong was about to rip it out. I have come up with a plan to never have to worry about an anchor point again, I will share it later.

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[Another Ahab]

I have sunk a wrecker 936A1 to the bumper going downhill, worst possible scenario and yeah it pulled every pinetree we hooked to, by the way why use tree savers when you are just sucking the whole thing out of the ground? Finally got all but 5 wraps off rear drum and hooked to massive oak approximately 12-15' in circumference and pulled it out backwards,that big oak was shaking like king Kong was about to rip it out. I have come up with a plan to never have to worry about an anchor point again, I will share it later.

???

 

[Csm Davis]

That would work but would take alot of modifications. What I'm talking about would require no mods to the stock winch/pulleys. Heres a very quick, very ugly drawing in ms paint. Don't spew your coffee on the keyboard when looking at these fine, artistic abilities haha.

View attachment 672875

Green is the boom. The grey circles are the stock winch and pulley. Red is the second winch concept that I'm talking about. Red circle on the left would be the second winch. Red circle on the right would be it's pulley mounted to the main boom. If needed could easily mount it to the end of the inner boom using the pin location that the stock winch uses for a double line rigging.

Think I like this setup witha few different pulleys

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[wcuhillbilly]

I have sunk a wrecker 936A1 to the bumper going downhill, worst possible scenario and yeah it pulled every pinetree we hooked to, by the way why use tree savers when you are just sucking the whole thing out of the ground? Finally got all but 5 wraps off rear drum and hooked to massive oak approximately 12-15' in circumference and pulled it out backwards,that big oak was shaking like king Kong was about to rip it out. I have come up with a plan to never have to worry about an anchor point again, I will share it later.

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As we all await the unveiling with baited breath.......

 

[73m819]

This would be a useful addition - assuming you are intending on competing in the local wrecker market, though the rear lift is only suited to military bumpers as opposed to an underlift.


There is, but do you want to add that much weight forward of the pivot point? We have previously discussed moving the stock hoist winch to the rear of the boom - above the tool boxes, which will add weight to the front of the truck and add to the overall capacity of the crane.


I think the bigger issue, is the fluted drum which restricts the winch to one layer, which with a 3 part setup, will only allow the hook to reach the ground right under a full stick.

The optimum mod would be to change the fluted drum for a smaller diameter smooth one (massively increasing cable capacity/recovery reach), move it to the end of the boom, then add a second one above it or simply replace the whole setup with two smaller civi hyd winches mounted axially or stacked, at the end of the boom like civi rotators.

Time for another "concept" sketch maybe???????

The fluted drum only sets the first lay of cable, it does not restrict the cable to one wrap.

 

[zebedee]

I have sunk a wrecker 936A1 to the bumper going downhill, worst possible scenario.....< snip> I have come up with a plan to never have to worry about an anchor point again, I will share it later.

Let me guess - a track skid steer that mounts to the back of the wrecker like a Moffett fork lift on a sheet rock truck, that has a monster ground spade instead of the bucket???????

I should be ok ... I have friends currently collecting the 8 ground anchor plates and 64 hex pins (not to mention a load of spare sledge hammer handles) that I'll be carrying (Aussie/Brit equivalent to Bii) for self recovery when there is nothing around...

 

[zebedee]

The fluted drum only sets the first lay of cable, it does not restrict the cable to one wrap.

I didn't think there was any room between the top of the fluted layer and the under side of the boom for a second layer......

 

[red]

Let me guess - a track skid steer that mounts to the back of the wrecker like a Moffett fork lift on a sheet rock truck, that has a monster ground spade instead of the bucket???????
View attachment 672933

I tried that remote skid steer, fell into the same hole before being a usable anchor.....

 

[Csm Davis]

Let me guess - a track skid steer that mounts to the back of the wrecker like a Moffett fork lift on a sheet rock truck, that has a monster ground spade instead of the bucket???????
View attachment 672933
I should be ok ... I have friends currently collecting the 8 ground anchor plates and 64 hex pins (not to mention a load of spare sledge hammer handles) that I'll be carrying (Aussie/Brit equivalent to Bii) for self recovery when there is nothing around...

As we all await the unveiling with baited breath.......

???


View attachment 672876

You guys are funny, NOT!
My idea is labor intensive but should work. Make a upside-down W using the tow bar and the boom supports and feet as the outside legs of the W dig a trench for all of it to go into. The feet of the boom supports should be connected and angled so they will dig in and should be buried at least a foot underground. Yes this is going to be deep holes. Probably have to use some big screw shackles to attach the tow bar and the boom supports then attach a sheave to the Lunette which should be in a trench pointed at the truck. I think with the legs fully extended and a good wide W it should be enough to pull hard against.

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[zebedee]

Er... I think an "Up side down W"..... is an 'M'. : )

Jeff - that sounds like a reeeeeal load of extra work! I thought banging in 64 ground anchor pins was a chore but digging that much .. Wowza.

Have you seen the US style ground anchors that were Bii back in the M1A1/M62 days? Enough of them should add up to the ground reaction force needed to self recover. Even an oversize boat anchor (self setting and reverse winch removal) has been discussed before..

I do realise that you are trying to utilise stuff that is already carried on the truck.


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Try this for an idea........


Boat anchor for the self digging function being the objective.

Using tow bar and support leg base plates.

Add a sub-assembly bracket that will utilise above. (Maybe only 10 lbs for added weight over already carried Bii)

Assemble with pins like the ground spade for HEMTT wrecker (M984E1/A4 etc.)



Towbar on it's side (one leg above the other) for the spine, base plates for the self digging flukes, sub-assembly to be fab'd to attatch flukes to towbar at correct 'digging' angle to lower towbar leg and braced off of top towbar leg. (Attach a 10' chain to heel - subframe or towbar - [where foot goes] for retrieval when buried deep.)

There has to be Naval/Marine Architecture studies/research for the geometry/calculations for self digging anchors ... ?

 

[zebedee]

I tried that remote skid steer, fell into the same hole before being a usable anchor.....

Red - I was in a tow truck shop in PA some time ago (truck died picking up stuff from Mechanicsburg) and read an article in a tow mag about a tow company that invented a monster ground spade with winches that they had on a skid steer for recovering stuck stuff way out in the boonies, away from a surfaced road. Carried a "mile" (tongue in cheek) of cable on a monster winch, with loads of shackle points for doubling back etc... I recall it took them a while to get the spade angles and counter weights orientated to give the max resistance. It was way bigger than this one; http://www.rollbacksidewinder.com/SkidSteerLoader.html kinda like the one in this build thread; http://tow411.yuku.com/topic/77694#.WNo8TW8rLIU

There is also a great you tube vid of some weird atv thing in Sweden/Finland(?) for recovering stuck logging equip/excavators etc..

Actually let's not give Jeff any more ideas - I wanna see a time lapse cartoon type video of him digging all those trenches!! Like the Benny Hill closing credits.




Found It!...

 

[wcuhillbilly]

Zeb
That Mort winch looks a lot like our rear drag winches..... though with the extra gear on the side, I think it came from a Holmes,,,, HMMM.... If I had a fortune laying around that I wanted to reduce to piddlings.... I would snag a few of the 816 or 936 rear drag winches and set em up this way.... Niche market...... or Starvation plantation waiting on a sell....

 

[Csm Davis]

Zeb
That Mort winch looks a lot like our rear drag winches..... though with the extra gear on the side, I think it came from a Holmes,,,, HMMM.... If I had a fortune laying around that I wanted to reduce to piddlings.... I would snag a few of the 816 or 936 rear drag winches and set em up this way.... Niche market...... or Starvation plantation waiting on a sell....

65,000 lb winch, maybe off HET.

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[zebedee]

Further to earlier post re ground anchor.

Assembled from wrecker Bii with added "combining bracket" - this is the concept sketch.

 

[red]

Would that anchor setup try to unbury itself by rotating the back end upwards?

 

[Csm Davis]

Er... I think an "Up side down W"..... is an 'M'. : )

Jeff - that sounds like a reeeeeal load of extra work! I thought banging in 64 ground anchor pins was a chore but digging that much .. Wowza.

Have you seen the US style ground anchors that were Bii back in the M1A1/M62 days? Enough of them should add up to the ground reaction force needed to self recover. Even an oversize boat anchor (self setting and reverse winch removal) has been discussed before..

I do realise that you are trying to utilise stuff that is already carried on the truck.


._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._


Try this for an idea........


Boat anchor for the self digging function being the objective.

Using tow bar and support leg base plates.

Add a sub-assembly bracket that will utilise above. (Maybe only 10 lbs for added weight over already carried Bii)

Assemble with pins like the ground spade for HEMTT wrecker (M984E1/A4 etc.)



Towbar on it's side (one leg above the other) for the spine, base plates for the self digging flukes, sub-assembly to be fab'd to attatch flukes to towbar at correct 'digging' angle to lower towbar leg and braced off of top towbar leg. (Attach a 10' chain to heel - subframe or towbar - [where foot goes] for retrieval when buried deep.)

There has to be Naval/Marine Architecture studies/research for the geometry/calculations for self digging anchors ... ?

Yes I know what a M looks like but wanted to emphasize the spread.
Yeah me and you have a thread going about the land anchors somewhere.
I never said I would dig it by hand, we have a small backhoe that would be drug in to place if i had to try my anchor. For non wrecker winching I would just use the tow bar extended and drive bars through the holes in the inner legs.
Best thing for wrecker is don't get stuck.


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[zebedee]

Would that anchor setup try to unbury itself by rotating the back end upwards?

I think I understand your question...
As the lunette eye is pulled, the flukes of the anchor - the two base plates, would go down as they move towards the stuck wrecker. There may have to be a little trench dug to 'introduce' the flukes into the ground, but when at the correct angle - they'd keep going down. Like how a boat anchor works. Specifically the plough type:

For retrieval, it has to be pulled out the reverse direction - up and to the left (as the drawing is now - achieved by a chain leash left loose on the ground, the other end attached to the top of the combining bracket.

 

[red]

Further to earlier post re ground anchor.

Assembled from wrecker Bii with added "combining bracket" - this is the concept sketch.

View attachment 673079

Gotcha, that makes sense.

Rather than carrying another heavy piece of steel around, why not use the whiffle tree as the 'combining bracket'?

Or, maybe setup as the wide legged M. Use the short crane support legs running from the outside pin holes of the whiffle tree to the pads. Then the towbar secured to the inner pin holes of the whiffle tree and run out and connected to the snatch block/winch cable.