Yet Another EESS Question

[Carrera911]

I've been doing a ton of work on a buddies truck he bought not running. All his glow plugs were shot, most of them missing part of the tip. Before I replaced all of them, I tested the output of the EESS. It puts out full voltage during the wait light and about 5 volts for 30 seconds or so. This is without starting the truck. The EESS was also mounted without fully threaded bolts so it was loose. So I fixed that, made a grounding harness and the truck started as normal and had the regular after glow pulsing.

This was about a month ago and I've been fixing the numerous other things wrong with the truck. I've started it maybe a dozen times since and went to start it yesterday to find out it's already killed most all the plugs. So I disassembled the Nartron EESS and it looks perfect inside, except for the Chinese relay. (can't believe they'd use that in a military vehicle). The USA made solenoid is also from 2015 so it's a fairly new box.

After doing some digging, it looks like these Nartron units can do this and the KDS is the one to go with. Is this just a randomly bad box that needs to be replaced?

 

[NormB]

Hard to say which component went mammary glands up, troubleshooting and repair could be time-intensive but doable for someone with good circuit-tracing and repair skills.

Best bet is replacing the box and temp sensor with the latest/bestest unit, often available in the $400-$500 range. Buy two. Cheap insurance. And ALWAYS disconnect batteries before doing anything electrical (and often mechanical) on the truck.

18 degrees outside yesterday AM and just for fun I decided to start my truck (out on the driveway). Switch on, light off in about 5 seconds, started right up with CLOUDS of vaporized diesel fuel, rattled around a bit, but a minute later it smoothed out no problem.

I replaced my old box a few months after buying in Oct ‘16, it was like night and day starting wise. I highly recommend DEOXIT on all contacts when reassembling the amphenol multi-pin BIG connectors.

Personally, I’d be “happier” with a NON-digital electronic box if it were possible, readily available, less likelihood of stray voltage spikes cooking something, more EMP-proof (don’t forget the Norks have at least one nuke in low earth orbit ready to pop at some as-yet determined point in our future).

I was an NBC NCO in an earlier life, CBRNE team officer in a later one. Lotta reasons I bought this truck.

Enjoy.

 

[osteo16]

Hope my ESSS is good.. be months before I can plug it back in

 

[osteo16]

Xie Xie........ thank you

 

[Carrera911]

Hard to say which component went mammary glands up, troubleshooting and repair could be time-intensive but doable for someone with good circuit-tracing and repair skills.

Best bet is replacing the box and temp sensor with the latest/bestest unit, often available in the $400-$500 range. Buy two. Cheap insurance. And ALWAYS disconnect batteries before doing anything electrical (and often mechanical) on the truck.

18 degrees outside yesterday AM and just for fun I decided to start my truck (out on the driveway). Switch on, light off in about 5 seconds, started right up with CLOUDS of vaporized diesel fuel, rattled around a bit, but a minute later it smoothed out no problem.

I replaced my old box a few months after buying in Oct ‘16, it was like night and day starting wise. I highly recommend DEOXIT on all contacts when reassembling the amphenol multi-pin BIG connectors.

Personally, I’d be “happier” with a NON-digital electronic box if it were possible, readily available, less likelihood of stray voltage spikes cooking something, more EMP-proof (don’t forget the Norks have at least one nuke in low earth orbit ready to pop at some as-yet determined point in our future).

I was an NBC NCO in an earlier life, CBRNE team officer in a later one. Lotta reasons I bought this truck.

Enjoy.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. The reason I didn't want to tell him to get a new box straight away is that I haven't been able to see it continue to put out voltage and fry the plugs. It must be an intermittent issue.

I've always said if my box dies I'm just going to get a 24 volt starter solenoid and mount a push button near the start switch. However, he wants to get a new box. I've been looking for a KDS box on the usual sites and I haven't had much luck. I found this, which I believe to be one but the label has no branding.


Is this the KDS S3? It also looks like the KDS and Nartron temp sensors are compatible with one another? Is that so or should I just go ahead and get a new KDS sensor as well?

thanks again

 

[gringeltaube]

Please let's keep this on-topic and also omit posting any political comments. (-> Forum Rules)

 

[NormB]

Thanks. The reason I didn't want to tell him to get a new box straight away is that I haven't been able to see it continue to put out voltage and fry the plugs. It must be an intermittent issue.

I've always said if my box dies I'm just going to get a 24 volt starter solenoid and mount a push button near the start switch. However, he wants to get a new box. I've been looking for a KDS box on the usual sites and I haven't had much luck. I found this, which I believe to be one but the label has no branding.
View attachment 785650

Is this the KDS S3? It also looks like the KDS and Nartron temp sensors are compatible with one another? Is that so or should I just go ahead and get a new KDS sensor as well?

thanks again

Um, no, the S3 box has a diagnostics port in front with a cap on a chain, and yes, the temp. sensor is different.

This is a picture of a Nartron Smart Start unit:

 

[Jericho]

the relay you pictured is readily availible. And if you search you may find one made in the US if not get a German one . The Chinese electronics components are garbage , Congress forgets the neat little law that required weapons and components be American made. They are commonly used on commercial diesel skid mounted generator sets , I change them occassionaly . vibration is the killer

 

[osteo16]

Quick question.. does the ESSS only control glow plug heating ? If a manual system was to be put in, in its place, would one have to continue to use the box for any other ancillary features ??? Besides the Wait to Start light

 

[NormB]

Quick question.. does the ESSS only control glow plug heating ? If a manual system was to be put in, in its place, would one have to continue to use the box for any other ancillary features ??? Besides the Wait to Start light

Do a search for “How to repair HMMWVf EESS S3”.

Retiredwarhorse posted this:

”...if you look at the old schematic of a PCB...not an EESS, it shows 6 items in the box.
1. Wait to start lamp
2. Lamp check
3. Frequency lockout/load dump
4. Glow plug control
5. Reverse polarity load dump
6. Starter control

all of this tied to just about every POS and negative connection in the truck on the dash and anything that has voltage running through it.”

So far as I can tell, those are still the control features of the S3/EESS, and then some.

 

[Carrera911]

Um, no, the S3 box has a diagnostics port in front with a cap on a chain, and yes, the temp. sensor is different.

This is a picture of a Nartron Smart Start unit:

Thanks, I've seen those pics of the S3 but I haven't been able to find any for sale. I messaged the seller of that box in the picture and he basically said it's generic but it uses a KDS sensor. He claims he hasn't had any issues with them, but I'd hate to get it and have issues, not knowing if its just another bad box or some other issue.

Anyone know where to source a new KDS?

 

[Carrera911]

Quick question.. does the ESSS only control glow plug heating ? If a manual system was to be put in, in its place, would one have to continue to use the box for any other ancillary features ??? Besides the Wait to Start light

As previously said, it does have a lot of other functions than just the glow plugs. However, I haven't really seen anyone with issues other than the glow plugs not working or getting burned up.

Honestly I think these trucks should've never even had these boxes. It seems pretty pointless over having a small fuse / relay panel with easily replaceable components. And trying to idiot proof lighting the glow plugs has backfired and been one of the biggest Achilles heels of these trucks.

 

[Carrera911]

the relay you pictured is readily availible. And if you search you may find one made in the US if not get a German one . The Chinese electronics components are garbage , Congress forgets the neat little law that required weapons and components be American made. They are commonly used on commercial diesel skid mounted generator sets , I change them occassionaly . vibration is the killer

I don't know that there's a problem with the relay I just pointed that out because I was shocked to see that they used that, especially for what they charge for these things. Also the coil is only rated for 20 volts. I think a lot of things used to be under rated, but when it comes to cheap import electronics, I think it's usually just the opposite.

 

[NormB]

Moderators: NOT political, but important point to make here.

Song Chuan is a TAIWANESE company with factories around the world. Do keep in mind the history of Taiwan as the true seat of legitimate mainland Chinese government forced out by the Chinese Communists under Chiang Kai Scheck/Mao circa 1949.

The relays ARE mfd here in the states, and, being a Taiwanese company, meets standards for US-made components for purchase by military/gov’t agencies.

Song Chuan USA and Song Chuan Precision Europe GmbH

songchuanusa.com

”
Song Chuan USA, INC.
Song Chuan Precision Europe GmbH
Song Chuan is a world class manufacturer of power electromechanical relays with over 40 years of experience. Founded in 1974, Song Chuan remains an industry leader, providing switching solutions for Industrial, Automotive, Appliance, HVAC, Power and Green Energy Applications.



The Song Chuan Group of Companies, with world headquarters located in Taipei, Taiwan, is privately held Taiwanese company with eight global business units(companies) and four manufacturing facilities.

http://www.songchuan.com”


Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of S3/EESS/CPB woes...

 

[Mogman]

When my EESS went south not only did the glow plugs not work the alternator would not work.
I appears the main attempt was to protect the vehicle from having the batteries hooked up backwards, also it seems to help remove any parasitic drain that is normal through things like the diode set in the alternator, etc.