questions for california owners

[Bad_Carp]

In California a 3 axle vehicle over 6000 lbs requires a class b.

If you tow a trailer over 10000 lbs you need a class a

They are cracking down on recreation vehicles now. If buy a recreational vehicle now but do not have the correct drivers license you can not drive it off of the dealers lot, most dealer just have it delivered.

A Class C license is good for driving any RV under 40 feet in length even if it has 3 axles.

A Class B is required for any RV over 40 ft but less than 45 ft.

 

[quickfarms]

A three axle rv over 6000 lbs requires a class b

 

[Bad_Carp]

The DMV lists "a 3 axle vehicle weighing 6,000 lbs gross or less" and "Any housecar 40' or less" as two seperate entities. And this follows what I was told by the DMV when I asked if my class C was good for driving my housecar which is a 3 axle M109A3.

Remember, a housecar is not a vehicle as defined by the vehicle code, it is a housecar.

So while under a Class C it does list

* A 3 axle vehicle weighing 6,000 lbs gross or less

it also lists

* ANY housecar 40' or less


House Car
362. A "house car" is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached. A motor vehicle to which a camper has been temporarily attached is not a house car except that, for the purposes of Division 11 (commencing with Section 21000) and Division 12 (commencing with Section 24000), a motor vehicle equipped with a camper having an axle that is designed to support a portion of the weight of the camper unit shall be considered a three-axle house car regardless of the method of attachment or manner of registration. A house car shall not be deemed to be a motortruck.

Now of course if don't meet the guidelines of a housecar and have it registered as such, all bets are off.

 

[MyothersanM1]

Just a couple more thoughts. Innocent until proven guilty. We all know the burden of proof is on the accuser in this country. However, with that said, you may have quite an uphill battle defending yourself in a court of law if you are cited for driving out of class, misrepresent your vehicle as something it isn't or, God forbid, hurt or kill someone in a traffic collision. Yes. I am a proponent of the CDL and I'm just saying err on this side caution and roll safe.

 

[willy]

If converting to a RV what has to be done.????
I was thinking off making 2 bunk beds on ones side, and a counter on the other side with a small refrig. under it and I have a porty potty
Would that make a RV
The refrig can be powered by a inverter 24 volt to 110 volt and leave it on or plug it in
Does it have to have a window.???
Willy

 

[MyothersanM1]

My truck is definetly not a house car. So I stick with my belief on the CDL.

However, Bad-Carp is correct in his interpretation of law. However, I would be very careful trying to certify anything a "house car" outside of any model variations of shop or expando vans such as the M109 or M820. Remember CVC Sect. 362 verbiage states "originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached". There's that nagging word "permanently". A cot, camping toilet and propane stove won't cut it. You might want to think about purchasing one of the aforementioned trucks to take advantage of this loophole. Then again you could always build a "permanent" shelter in the bed.

Bad_Carp I always applaud your arguments on the house car issue. Thank you for your perspective.

 

[SMOKEWAGON66]

If converting to a RV what has to be done.????
I was thinking off making 2 bunk beds on ones side, and a counter on the other side with a small refrig. under it and I have a porty potty
Would that make a RV
The refrig can be powered by a inverter 24 volt to 110 volt and leave it on or plug it in
Does it have to have a window.???
Willy

Im not sure about the window, but Im fairly certain one of the main things that make it an RV is a stove. So dont forget that colemans propane camping stove screwed to the counter

 

[Moto4Life]

When I read through the CVC I was under the impression that a nonCDL Class B would suffice since the Deuce isn't equipped with air brakes, just air assisted brakes.

 

[Truckoholic]

When I read through the CVC I was under the impression that a nonCDL Class B would suffice since the Deuce isn't equipped with air brakes, just air assisted brakes.

Air brakes do not create a requirement for a CDL. And there are plenty of two axle straight trucks under 26,000 that have air brakes yet do not require a CDL. If you took an m939 truck that does have air brakes, and bobbed it and registered it for under 26,000 pounds you would still not need a CDL.

So you are right that a class B is sufficient for the deuce, but it is still commercial because of the three axles and it's empty weight.

 

[Truckoholic]

If converting to a RV what has to be done.????
I was thinking off making 2 bunk beds on ones side, and a counter on the other side with a small refrig. under it and I have a porty potty
Would that make a RV
The refrig can be powered by a inverter 24 volt to 110 volt and leave it on or plug it in
Does it have to have a window.???
Willy

I know some states make you have a vehicle inspection to verify that you have all of the required Rv amenities like sewer and water, and things before they will let you register it as an rv. As far as California goes, I researched the subject heavily when I was wanting to make a Peterbilt motor home, and I never was satisfied with the answers I found.

 

[Bad_Carp]

I know some states make you have a vehicle inspection to verify that you have all of the required Rv amenities like sewer and water, and things before they will let you register it as an rv. As far as California goes, I researched the subject heavily when I was wanting to make a Peterbilt motor home, and I never was satisfied with the answers I found.

California only required the housecar form be filled out and signed. No inspection was done (however all the work was done and the vehicle is an actual housecar by the definition), so I wouldn't have issue had they wanted to inspect it.

 

[Truckoholic]

California only required the housecar form be filled out and signed. No inspection was done (however all the work was done and the vehicle is an actual housecar by the definition), so I wouldn't have issue had they wanted to inspect it.

Oh, well good. With all the things California does wrong, I'm always impressed to find out when they do things right like that

 

[Bad_Carp]

Oh, well good. With all the things California does wrong, I'm always impressed to find out when they do things right like that

Yea, I was surprised at the lack of issues I had registering the M109 as a housecar. If you do the work, fill out the forms, and of course pay the fees, then it is pretty straight forward.

Note of caution: My M109A3 has been actually converted into a housecar, the build thread is linked in my signature below. I would not attempt to register a M35 or even another M109 as a housecar without first having done the work to make it so.

A permanently attached comm shelter properly outfitted to be a housecar would work for a M35 as long as it was never removed.

 

[RedbeardTheZombieHunter]

With all the rigamarole ya gotta go through to drive a deuce or a 5-Ton on a class C in the Peoples Republik of Kommiefornia, it seems to me it'd just be easier to bob it and then the Chips in the white cars (commercial vehicle enforcement) won't have probable cause to pull you over in the first place. If I want a portable living space, I'll stick a big cabover camper on an M105 and then my portable living space can go with me just about anywhere.

 

[Bad_Carp]

With all the rigamarole ya gotta go through to drive a deuce or a 5-Ton on a class C in the Peoples Republik of Kommiefornia, it seems to me it'd just be easier to bob it and then the Chips in the white cars (commercial vehicle enforcement) won't have probable cause to pull you over in the first place. If I want a portable living space, I'll stick a big cabover camper on an M105 and then my portable living space can go with me just about anywhere.

Yes, much easier route if you have an M35 and don't care if it is left original. I haven't seen a M109 bobbed...and I don't think I want to!

 

[MyothersanM1]

With all the rigamarole ya gotta go through to drive a deuce or a 5-Ton on a class C in the Peoples Republik of Kommiefornia, it seems to me it'd just be easier to bob it and then the Chips in the white cars (commercial vehicle enforcement) won't have probable cause to pull you over in the first place. If I want a portable living space, I'll stick a big cabover camper on an M105 and then my portable living space can go with me just about anywhere.

Just because they THINK you don't have the proper licensing is not sufficient PC to conduct a traffic stop. If you are worried about being pulled over then concentrate on ensuring all equipment is serviceable, you are obeying all traffic laws and that will no be problem. That is advice coming the LEO side.

 

[Rustygears]

Air brakes do not create a requirement for a CDL. And there are plenty of two axle straight trucks under 26,000 that have air brakes yet do not require a CDL. If you took an m939 truck that does have air brakes, and bobbed it and registered it for under 26,000 pounds you would still not need a CDL.

Uh, this isn't exactly correct. Cali requires an 'air brake endorsement' for the operation of any vehicle with air brakes and consists of special written AND behind the wheel skills test elements for the CDL, class A, B or C. In fact, if you take your CDL in a vehicle that does not have air brakes, even after passing the special 'air brakes written test', you are barred from operating a vehicle with air brakes and your licenses is marked accordingly. Same goes for automatic transmissions on CDL.

I'm not sure how the folks with those massive Class "A" diesel pusher motorhomes built on bus chassis are licensed because they are air brake equipped, but I think they may have to be 'Noncommercial Class B" with air brake endorsement.

The legal opinion I got from the CHP & DMV is that air operated brakes are a form of airbrakes and therefore come under the airbrake licensing requirements of the CVC. Does anyone have any specific case history from a California court that establishes a precedent otherwise?

BTW: The commercial plates for my A3 costs me about $1000 a year and that is only for 15000 GVW, which is only about a 500 lb useful load with full fuel and driver. for a higher GVW the price goes WAY up!

 

[quickfarms]

RUSTYGEARS have you tried to get an air brake endorsement on a class c?

I was told that the DMV does not issue an air brake endorsement anymore but they will put a restriction on a cdl if you take the test using a truck that does not have airbrakes.

The chp has pc to pull all of our vehicles, over 10,000 lbs, over because they look like a commercial vehicle but they are not displaying CA or DOT numbers.

I carry a binder full of paperwork in my truck to educate the officer on what my truck is and why it is registered the way it is.

Rustygears why is your registration $1000 a year?

 

[MyothersanM1]

The chp has pc to pull all of our vehicles, over 10,000 lbs, over because they look like a commercial vehicle but they are not displaying CA or DOT numbers.

In speaking with my local Comm. Enforce. Officers, once plated Historic that PC is out the window. I can drive on any public street, truck route or not. Just don't get caught hauling a load unless you can well articulate that said load has to do with some sort of historic significance to the vehicle. For example: if your are driving to a military reenactment and it is full of military gear you are covered.

 

[Truckoholic]

Uh, this isn't exactly correct. Cali requires an 'air brake endorsement' for the operation of any vehicle with air brakes and consists of special written AND behind the wheel skills test elements for the CDL, class A, B or C. In fact, if you take your CDL in a vehicle that does not have air brakes, even after passing the special 'air brakes written test', you are barred from operating a vehicle with air brakes and your licenses is marked accordingly. Same goes for automatic transmissions on CDL.

Just found the following

"According to the Federal Motor Carrier and Safety Administration, you DO NOT need a CDL with air brake endorsement to drive a vehicle that is under 26,000 GVWR that has air brakes. The reasoning behind this is that since a CDL is not required to drive the vehicle, there is no way to require the "air brake" endorsement under the CDL guidelines.
Also note that your Class C license does not contain an "L" restriction.

References:
FMCSA §383.5 Definitions.
Commercial driver's license (CDL) means a license issued by a State or other jurisdiction, in accordance with the standards contained in 49 CFR Part 383 , to an individual which authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle.
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle-
(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or
(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.
FMCSA §383.95 Air brake restrictions.
(a) If an applicant either fails the air brake component of the knowledge test, or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, the State shall indicate on the CDL, if issued, that the person is restricted from operating a CMV equipped with air brakes.
(b) For the purposes of the skills test and the restriction, air brakes shall include any braking system operating fully or partially on the air brake principle.