MA, 5 Ton, CDL, MA RMV

[martinwcox]

I hear the groans already – “Not another CDL thread!".

Yes I live in MA and would like a 5 Ton BUT do I need a CDL?
There are many posts on the subject BUT every state is different and I really could not find a definitive one for us MA guys.

The web is a wonderful thing and in short order I was able to get a copy of CMR 540 Part 2.0,
2.05 spells out Registration requirements and 2.06 Operators Licensing requirements.

At first read it looks like 5 Ton = CDL. However, under Special CDL Exemptions:

“5. Recreational Vehicle Operators. Any vehicle operated solely as a personal or family conveyance for recreational purposes may be operated with a Class D License. To be exempt from CDL requirements, the vehicle must be used exclusively to transport family members or personal friends and/or their effects.”

Unable to find a definition of Recreational Vehicle in either CMR 540 or Massachusetts General Law Chapter 90 (Motor Vehicles and Aircraft) Section 1, I sent an email to MassDOT via the RMV website.
I had in fact asked about Antique registration and any weight restriction and started an email dialogue with an RMV representative. It would appear that based on the reply I got back that you cannot register a vehicle over 26,001lbs as Antique. That said I started down the over 26,001lbs need a CDL but what about the above captioned exemption?
To my surprise I actually got a call from what I assume was a supervisor at the RMV. He said I seemed to be all over the place with my questions, first Antique then CDL questions, what did I want to know?
I explained the 5 Ton dilemma and asked about the above CDL exemption. That seemed to catch him totally by surprise and I heard him ask for a copy of the regulations. I guided him to the section in question in CMR 540 2.06. I guess I had a small section of a very large document and it took him a while to find what I was talking about.
I got the impression he had never actually read the regulations. The big issue is what is the definition of a Recreational Vehicle and it’s Operator. As I said originally, the definition seems to be lacking in MGL 90 Section 1 or CMR 540.
So, the question is being referred to the MA RMV Legal Department for interpretation.
I am not holding out much hope but at least we may or may not get a definitive answer. I am told I will at least get a status call / email tomorrow.

 

[jaymcb]

I bet someone is looking at the IMMACULATE 5 ton .

You're not going to get something with air brakes past the CDL rules in MA, period.

It is also going to cost a fortune to keep commercial plates on it here in MA too. It was a big enough turnoff to me to stop considering it

 

[martinwcox]

Hi Jay,

I did see that one , however I have found an M813A1 I want but I fear the Gods are against me!

I have actually started studying the CDL theory exam but that a long way off.

Martin.

 

[jaymcb]

If you want a hand picking it up, shoot me a call or PM. You know you want it

if you don't have the space, sell me your H1!

 

[vtdeucedriver]

There is no 5 ton here.....................move along.

 

[T4bergie]

As for the CDL, I am ok however it will be interesting when I try to register my 1958 M125 as an antique.
On one hand an antique is considered a "motor vehicle 25 years old or older". On the other a commercial vehicle is "a vehicle with 5 or more tires and weighs 26,001 lbs or more". So which is it? My M125 is a "motor vehicle" just as a Model T is. Is a WC63 a commercial vehicle because it has 6 wheels?
The argument can then be made that these vehicles are not used in commerce or for transportation of people and therefore qualify as antique according to the current standard. They were built for a specific purpose-to be used for war. When you go for antique plates you must sign and have notorized an RMV form which restricts your operating to parades, club events, to and from repair shops etc. so what is the problem? The vehicle still has to be inspected every year.

Many years ago I worked with the RMV, SEMA and the Mass Tire Dealers Assoc. in getting laws written and passed regarding lift kits and oversized tires on pickup trucks. I found the RMV to be very good to work with at that level. It was give and take. The laws were written and after testifying before a joint session of the Public Safety Committee, passed and are in effect today. Everybody was happy.

We have an antique statute for our vehicles now but we need to put in some wording which will allow the big boys to register as antique and be given a pass on the CDL for vehicles registered as such.

 

[martinwcox]

T4bergie, thanks for the info.

My Deuce has Antique plates and that was not a real issue to get done.

I am still waiting to hear back from the RMV, will email my contact and see where they are in formulating an answer. The guy I spoke with was actually great to talk to. He was a little suprised I think that I actually had read CMR 540 and MGL 90 - I don't think he had!

It will be interesting to hear the answer as I could not find any definition for Recreational Vechicle other than the implied definiton in the CDL exemption.

I totally agree on having a statue on the books that covers our hobby.

Where do we start!

Martin.

 

[T4bergie]

If your RMV contact gets back to you ask him if you can forward his contact info to me and I will have a chat with him, (either by email or phone his choice), and try to set up a meeting to discuss our situation. In these instances it is better to start at the top, or as close to it as possible, to get this resolved. Dealing with the branch offices is not good because they can only go by the info they have at their fingertips.

I need to get updated versions of CMR 540 & MGL 90 as well.

 

[5ton beachbuggy]

I have a M54a2 5 ton in MA registered as a camper.I did put a bed ,portapoddy, sink and grill in the back to be legal. Went to RMV and they ask if it had been converted and when I said yes they gave me the camper plates. I also had a camper permit for Nauset beach from the Town . Camper plates are cheap as is insurance and no CDL needed. Mike

 

[jaymcb]

I registered my m109 as a camper too, but with a tight-to-the-weather van body on the back (and 7 windows), at least I had a basis for it, so the RMV didn't give me too much of a hard time about it.

I'm told that 10 written letters is enough to get a politician's attention. Let me know if I can help in that regard....

 

[wreckerman893]

Don't take this as a personal attack....just an observation from someone who was a Drivers Trainer and License Examiner (Road Tester).

Getting a CDL is not rocket science or a big ordeal if you are educated at least to a 7th grade level (that is what miltary TM's and FM's are written on).

Get the study guide, have a friend quiz you and take the written test.

Rent or borrow a truck and be familiar with it when you get to the test site.

Be professional with the examiners and relax......most of them are going to give you some leeway when you test.

Do not go in with an adversarial attitude.......you can't win when you argue with the house.

 

[davidkroberts]

I used to own a truck driving school. As far as Tennessee regulation I was able to register mine as a Antique vehicle because they dont have a weight cutoff for antique plates. Its kind of in the grey area of regulation in my state. Even though im very comfortable driving any commercial vehicle i have let my CDL lapse. Honestly in Ma i would probably get a CDL (at least class B) to be safe and then run antique plates (also for insurance) so you have your butt covered if you get pulled over or DOTed

 

[martinwcox]

Don't take this as a personal attack....just an observation from someone who was a Drivers Trainer and License Examiner (Road Tester).

Getting a CDL is not rocket science or a big ordeal if you are educated at least to a 7th grade level (that is what miltary TM's and FM's are written on).

Get the study guide, have a friend quiz you and take the written test.

Rent or borrow a truck and be familiar with it when you get to the test site.

Be professional with the examiners and relax......most of them are going to give you some leeway when you test.

Do not go in with an adversarial attitude.......you can't win when you argue with the house.

I think this is good postive advice, I have a CDL study software package on my PC already and have been studying albeit when I have some free time which is slim to none.

The question to the RMV was more around what the regulations stated, implied but actually mean.

At least it will be informative and relavent for members in MA. To often I see replies, ............well in PA you don't need a CDL............., very nice, I live in MA!

 

[Kalashnikov]

5 tons can be registered as antiques in MA and become exempt from the CDL rule. My M35 and my M818 were/are registered as antiques. I'm also pretty sure the M123 the next town over is registered as an antique. I know he does not use escorts or anything of the sort nor have flags saying wide load (M123 is 9.5ft wide). I've never been hassled in my M123 although I haven't ventured very far with it yet.

Another option would be to have the weight registered under the 26klb CDL limited just to be safe.

Pretty much when anything registered as an antique won't get hassled.

 

[crazywelder72]

Even tho I dont have a 5t, I still want to meet up sometime.

 

[Danl]

Danl M915A1

Get your ytuck on a scale if the truck is lighter than 26 thousnad pounds than reg. it for for 25,500 pounds and you will be all set, jest don;t over load the truck and you should be all set, if you work the truck than that is not an RV. I really think that truck will be lighter than 26000, check it out a scale at a graval pit should only cost about 10 bucks

 

[martinwcox]

Well, here we are a week later and no call back from the RMV despite daily emails to remind them and nice replies stating that 'We will call or email you tomorrow.'

 

[martinwcox]

Get your ytuck on a scale if the truck is lighter than 26 thousnad pounds than reg. it for for 25,500 pounds and you will be all set, jest don;t over load the truck and you should be all set, if you work the truck than that is not an RV. I really think that truck will be lighter than 26000, check it out a scale at a graval pit should only cost about 10 bucks

According to my insurance guy, you must register the truck at it's GVW, you cannot de-rate it by registering it as less, it's an offence in MA, if you are stopped and the registation and data plate do not match you will be cited.

 

[treeguy]

According to my insurance guy, you must register the truck at it's GVW, you cannot de-rate it by registering it as less, it's an offence in MA, if you are stopped and the registation and data plate do not match you will be cited.

That is contrary to what my insurance co. has stated to me. From what I understand, if you ammend the GVW, the data plate is similar to: just because it says you can doesn't mean you should. What I mean is, if you ammend your GVW on your registration and get scaled with a load then you better not be over what the registration says for a weight. The officials are going to be going off of your registration.

Your quote is a new one to me.

Another matter is, I have no idea how any of you are able to get antique plates in MA. Again, from what I understand, the deuce is over the weight limit to plate as antique. And, if you run antique, you are limited to your vehicles activities right?

 

[martinwcox]

They never asked for the weight when I applied for Antique.

Show, parades, test drives, to and from repair shops..............Not for normal use.

I have specifally asked RMV Central this:

Phyllis,

Any feedback on:

"Is there any vehicle weight restriction on Antique registration?"

Clarification on this CDL exemption:

"5. Recreational Vehicle Operators. Any vehicle operated solely as a personal or family conveyance for recreational purposes may be operated with a Class D License. To be exempt from CDL requirements, the vehicle must be used exclusively to transport family members or personal friends and/or their effects."