Advice on buying a M1009.

[KerryAnn]

WOW! So this is my second attempt at posting this thread, as my first one got deleted somehow.

I guess I should start with the backstory first, sorry if this is too long.

We have a family vehicle, a Town and Country AWD that we use for family drives around town. This car has been increasingly problematic in that when it breaks its very expensive, or its inexpensive but a pain in the butt to work on as the engine compartment is something out of an MC Escher painting.

My husband has given me the green light to go ahead and find something I want to replace the family truckster. While roaming around used car lots to try to find something that suits my fancy I ran into an M1009 and fell head over heels in love with this beast. Since then I have been spending all of my free time reading the forums and learning about these trucks.

After reading and watching videos like: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CXy1DNxuZs[/media]

I have a pretty good basic knowledge of what to look for on the CUCV. The dealership that is selling the one I am going to go inspect further tonight is a run of the mill s***box civilian car dealer, though my husband told me that this dealer always sells M1008/M1009's, the M1008 being a lot more common than the M1009.

What can I expect from this truck as a daily driver/family vehicle? I do realize that we will likely go through a break in period as the truck has spent a majority of its life sitting in a motorpool.

When it does break, will I be restricted to buying expensive rebuilt parts for this, or will I be able to repair it with parts from a parts store like Autozone? While I would like my husband to ideally rebuild parts like the alternator if they are original, we will need something to get it back on the road while he finds time to do that.

When I go to inspect it tonight, what are some of the things you want me to take a closer look at? I can identify almost all of the parts under the hood so once I know what to look for, locating them shouldnt be a problem.

The one I am going to look at has some rust on the tailgate which seems to be a common problem, as well as some rust on the wheel wells. As long as the floor pans arent rusted out though Im assuming that wont be a problem. The dealer has it priced around $4,000 which after surfing the forums seems to be about middle of the road as pricing goes for these. My plan is to, once I figure out if its worth buying, walk into the dealers office with $2,000 cash or less and tell him to take it or I will walk. This tactic has worked well for me in the past as I dont NEED to jump into this right now, unless I can get a deal. I figure that with buying new tires and making the repairs Im sure to have to make, at around $2,000 I will have enough left in savings that I wont be breaking the bank to fix it, hopefully.


I would be willing to take some pictures or video if anyone here wanted to see it.

I would also be willing to meet up with any members that live close to me in Southeast WI as I have seen a bunch of active members say they live around here. My husband says that he will bring a six-pack for your time.

I am going to be monitoring this thread for the rest of the day so if anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask and I should reply promptly!

Thanks
-Kerry

 

[Keith_J]

They aren't new, some have lived hard lives being driven by teens who didn't have to buy insurance or fuel. Many times, off road too. Sure, convoy miles are easy but unit maintenance may have been spotty. For instance, back in the early days, mechanics didn't have Torx bits which were needed to service hubs, they used standard Allen keys . Yes, watched a 63B (Army MOS for light wheeled vehicle mechanic) do just that.

The few parts not common with the civy Chevys would be the crankcase depression regulator (gold can near fuel filter), a few relays, the fuel tank cap, alternators and glow plug system resistors/logic board. Thankfully, these parts can be found or rebuilt. All others can be sourced from classic truck vendors or even regular online sources.

Daily driver? The steering and suspension will conspire against you, even in the M1009. Always test drive, taking note of lane centering. If you have to rock the wheel to maintain straight course at 55 MPH, it probably needs the front end rebuilt. Parts for the axle and steering would be $400 and lots of labor. Then get a good alignment.

 

[porkysplace]

FAQ Thread for CUCV's
CUCV FAQ Article

 

[gungearz]

Welcome to steel soldiers.... I personally think, for a weekend family truck. It will be great for starting out in the MV world. As for a daily driver... I think its a bad idea. These truck were not built for speed or comfort. Just the very basics to get you thru whatever you need to....

 

[N5MCZ]

M1009

tell your husband how lucky he is if my wife had to get in that thing & get out of her caddy I would be looking at a divorce...LOL...take care

 

[Recovry4x4]

The M1009 is the most family friendly MV there is. Spartan in creature comforts is the worst aspect of them. They cruise nicely at 65 MPH, get decent fuel mileage and except for the isolated ground alternators and 24V starter, most items are available at the parts stores. I see no reason why you couldn't use this as a family truckster. Lots of other folks do just that. If you can tolerate the crank up windows, bare floor pans and a lack of air conditioning, you will be just fine. Check to make sure the wiring wasn't hacked and that the dealers parts swapper hasn't tried to convert it to 12V. Welcome to Steel Soldiers

 

[midcounty]

Good luck on the price negotiation I drive one every day, and aside from the extra noise and lack of A/C, it's really not an uncomfortable ride. I own a 99 Dodge 2500 p/u with about 150k on it, and my M1009's are more reliable and easier to maintain. Granted, they are older vehicles and are best suited for people with the ability to work on them and spot problems before they lead to bigger problems. Once again, good luck.

 

[KerryAnn]

Thanks so much for the encouragement!

There is something about this vehicle and the experience it provides that no other car on the road can duplicate.

How is the heat in these things? Is there any tips on inspecting this other than cranking it up and letting it run?

The longest it will be driven at a time will be around 15-30 miles a trip, no faster than 55mph, and back country roads with long stretches between lights.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Thanks so much for the encouragement!

There is something about this vehicle and the experience it provides that no other car on the road can duplicate.

How is the heat in these things? Is there any tips on inspecting this other than cranking it up and letting it run?

The longest it will be driven at a time will be around 15-30 miles a trip, no faster than 55mph, and back country roads with long stretches between lights.

Heat as in how hot on a summer day or effectiveness of the heater? They get warm in the summer. Being a diesel, in cold weather you may have to block off part of the radiator to get it warm enough. I'd consider adding a block heater for the cold winter mornings. It's capable of so much more than you are asking of it. Once the bugs get worked out they are downright dependable.

 

[KerryAnn]

Heat as in how hot on a summer day or effectiveness of the heater? They get warm in the summer. Being a diesel, in cold weather you may have to block off part of the radiator to get it warm enough. I'd consider adding a block heater for the cold winter mornings. It's capable of so much more than you are asking of it. Once the bugs get worked out they are downright dependable.

Im more concerned about the ability to handle the ice on the front window with defrost, but with kids it would be nice to get the interior as warm as possible in the winter. Not having AC isnt an issue for me.

Also with the electrical conversion, the dealer said it was 24v and I did see that it has military issue batteries, is there something specific to look for with this? It looks to me like the guy just hits the auctions once he runs out and sells them right off the block.

 

[porkysplace]

They will clear the front window , but just like the civy blazers of that era the rear windows will take a long time to clear . Also keep in mind in wisconsin winters you will ant a block heater and have to plug it in on cold nights . It's not a truck to run out to start-up and go , figure 5 to 10 minutes to warm up in cold weather , the same with any deisel motor.

 

[wayne pick]

I would shy away from dealerships as far as CUCV's go. Most of the time they are flippers, and do not make the nessesary upgrades to these trucks to make them reliable. These upgrades are as follows- A HD starter relay, or better known as "the doghead mod." a HD GP relay, A spin on fuel filter upgrade. These upgrades are relatively inexpensive. If you go to a dealership, ask the salesperson if these modifications have been done. If he looks at you like youre a math problem or a rubix cube, just walk away. There are many nice examples of 1009s with upgrades in the classifieds here at SS. Ask questions, read threads and replies before jumping in with both feet and you will end up with a nice truck.

 

[JGBallew]

I would shy away from dealerships as far as CUCV's go. Most of the time they are flippers, and do not make the nessesary upgrades to these trucks to make them reliable. These upgrades are as follows- A HD starter relay, or better known as "the doghead mod." a HD GP relay, A spin on fuel filter upgrade. These upgrades are relatively inexpensive. If you go to a dealership, ask the salesperson if these modifications have been done. If he looks at you like youre a math problem or a rubix cube, just walk away. There are many nice examples of 1009s with upgrades in the classifieds here at SS. Ask questions, read threads and replies before jumping in with both feet and you will end up with a nice truck.

Seconding the starter relay conversion.
The original relay is probably the weakest and goofiest relay application I've encountered in any military vehicle so far.

 

[ranchhopper]

I wouldnt be looking for a 1009 in highland park IL either.

 

[donalloy1]

Thanks so much for the encouragement!

There is something about this vehicle and the experience it provides that no other car on the road can duplicate.

How is the heat in these things? Is there any tips on inspecting this other than cranking it up and letting it run?

The longest it will be driven at a time will be around 15-30 miles a trip, no faster than 55mph, and back country roads with long stretches between lights.

Miss Kerry Ann,

My M1009 is more dependable than both my modern vehicles. Always some error code popping up on both. M1009 has no errors. It is an older vehicle so PM is a must. Watch her like a Hawk!

Use as daily commuter on Norcal Highways everyday unless she is getting TLC. Which comes up from time to time with any vehicle. Man against Machine. Sooner or later we lose!

Anyway, took me a year to find one I wanted and family loves it. Wife not as much? Take kids to school, me to work, camp, hunt and more. Very dependable and capable. Have not been disapointed yet. Good Luck! DMLII sends...

 

[SGTskully]

I have and drive an M1009 daily. I have done a few needed mods, but overall she is a great truck. I didnt think so when we were drivin them everyday in the ARMY, but thats what we had and they were new. Now 26+ YRS LATER i WOULDNT HAVE ANYTHING ELSE. sHE'LL OUT4wd ANYTHING new AND IS COMFORTABLE AS COMFORT GOES FOR MY STANDARDS IN A TRUCK. She is More emp PROOF THAN THE REST AND CHEAPER TO FIX.
Youre Making a great choice, and Ive had vettes n more.
Chad

 

[wallew]

Miss Kerry Ann,

Welcome to the green iron disease.

I've owned a deuce. Got REALLY TIRED of being both 'Soldier A' and 'Soldier B'. Sold it after about 18 months or so. Then about eight/ten months later, bought my first CUCV.

An M1009 just like you are looking at. I went with a private owner. Out of GA. Then had to have the vehicle delivered to Denver, C0 (for a fee of course).

I've since bought three CUCV's and sold two of them. I now own an M1028A2 dually and an M1009. I FLAT LOVE BOTH OF THEM. I also own a 1991 GMC Suburban (same body style).

These vehicles have loads of head room. Lots of 'hip and shoulder' room in the seats. Plenty of leg room as well. You can carry four full sized adults and still have plenty of room for gear.

I lived in Denver, Co until last year. And all I drove were CUCV's. Then just prior to moving I got my Suburban back (long story).

You can't go wrong. And if you get a good one - that basically means one with a solid body, it should give you years of service.

Take a close look at the speedometer. Is it a five digit speedo (original) or a six digit speedo (not available until 1990 (ish). Just because it's low miles, even if it's a five digit, doesn't mean anything or even if its a six digit speedo, it could simple mean the original broke and the military simply replaced it with what was available. Note - I'm saying five/six digit speedo that does not include the tenth of a mile portion, strictly the number of miles it can wrack up. before turning over 100k miles - which on a six digit speed you will see the 100k as a 1XXXXX. This is just one of many clues to see if it was driven a long time or properly maintained.

Most normal places to rust are the front fender wells, which are replaceable with parts from LMC Trucks for about $50 each (primered) plus s&h. Rust in the rockers under each door can also be repaired, but unless you do it yourself, it can be expensive ($500 per side was the quote I had on one truck). Again, little clues. IF there is a LOT of rust, walk on by. There are others out there that while not 'rust free', you can't see THROUGH the floor, if you know what I mean.

These are 20+ year old trucks. As long as you realize that and prepare for the fact that things WILL need to be replaced or repaired, you can survive with one. New tires is an excellent idea. The doghead mod is another good idea, though I've never done this particular upgrade to any of mine. I have always replaced ALL the switches, small bulbs and cleaned up each truck as I acquired it.

Another item to replace are the two starter bolts (last time I purchased them at a dealer, they were $7 each). GO WITH GM OEM BOLTS. Not replacement ones, even Grade 8. The original bolts stretch just a smidge when torqued to spec. That gives you 'some' confidence that they won't work loose from the daily vibrations they are subject to. I always carry a spare pair after having had to leave one in the parking lot because a bolt fell out somewhere and when I stopped, it would not start until the bolt was replaced.

The 6.2L (as it was delivered to the military) is not what I would call a powerhouse. BUT at the time, it actually produced about the same or perhaps a wee bit more, hp and tons more torque than it's 350 V8 gas engine AT THAT TIME (remember it is a 1984 design). Having said that, the 6.2L engine can be safely driven and even modified if you wish to upgrade the hp available to you. In that vein, I've always liked this article about a guy who campaigned first a 6.2L and then a 6.5L at the Salt flats... 6.5L Diesel Land Speed Truck, Bonneville Salt Flats, 6.5L Diesel as he states that these engines are much stouter than most people give them credit for. Especially if properly maintained.

The transmission is one of the easiest to rebuild, the TH400. And being a three speed one would think that it would get horrible MPG, but with the 3.08 gearing you should expect AT LEAST 15 -17 mpg in daily driving. More if you are easy on it.

I lived through several Colorado winters in mine and the heater never failed me. Even in the mountains. The front defroster always worked well and the front seat passengers were always warm. The middle seat? I can't speak to, because I rarely hauled any one or any thing in them. Just me.

Being 24v starter and a 24v trigger for the Glow plug system may sound a bit daunting, but in truth, these vehicles were well built and well thought out. I used to know a guy who was part of the military testing team when these were being considered. He always said he wished the military had adopted the Suburban they tested. Alas, that never happened.

Anyway, I like your idea of how to handle a used car salesman. You know HOW he's buying them. You just have to hope that what you are offering will give him the profit margin most of them seek.

Again, welcome to the green iron disease and Steel Soldiers. You are the rarity here, as few women seem to take to this hobby and these vehicles.

i wish you lots of luck and hope you find what you are looking for. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR. YOU MIGHT GET IT.

 

[KerryAnn]

Ok I checked it out tonight!

First I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied. I realize that I could probably piece the answers to my questions by digging deeper into the threads but this helps to get my exact questions answered as well as get to know some of you guys. I really do appreciate it.

After reading up on the forums, and talking to you guys I am probably not going to go with the truck I saw tonight. There was rust on the tailgate and in the wheel wells, aswell as in the interior on the drivers side floorboard toward the rear of the driver seat mount, could almost fit my hand through it. As I understood the dealership didnt make any modifications to it either. When I took it on a test drive the steering pulled only slightly to the left. There was no rearview mirror mounted to the windshield which hints to me that it was replaced, not sure if this is a good or bad thing though. There was also a slight squeeking sound that sounded to me like it came from the belts. Other than these issues the truck fired up nicely, and drove smooth at 55 on the highway. Unfortunatly I dont think the dealer will budge much on the price and there is no way in **** I would pay that much for this truck anyway.

Do you guys think it will be possible for me to find a decent truck on my budget of $2,000, or am I being unreasonable? Dont be afraid to be honest with me. Im not trying to prey on anyone but times are tough and I have to try to get what I want while keeping the best interests of my family at the forefront.

I would love to try the auction but Im not a gambling type of person and that comes with some risks.

*edit* The dealer told me that with these M1009 you can get three types of 6.2 engines, Two that were also used on civilian diesel trucks, and the one thats in this truck, which was built only for the military. I was curious if this is true or was he just blowing smoke?

 

[cpf240]

A couple of things:

1) You mention that this is to be used for driving the family around. One thing to keep in mind is that these trucks only have the safety equipment available at the time they were built. So, no ABS, no air bags, no traction control, no 3-point seat belts for the back seat, no modern infant car seat provisions and no crumple zones - unless you are pulling a trailer.

2) I think you'll have a hard time finding one for your stated price, unless you are willing to buy one that needs work. It is possible you could get lucky with a private party, or maybe on GL, GSA or local government auction, but I'm betting anything at about $2k is going to need at least some work.

3) It seems to be a common thing for the rear-view mirrors to be missing from the windshield. I doubt most of them are due to windshield replacements, probably more from the glue failing after so many years parked in the sun with the windows rolled up.

4) Even though the M1009 is a "truck", I can still haul more stuff in my wife's Sienna by removing the seats.

5) Unless you buy one from someone like a fellow SS member who knows these trucks and has gone through it already, be prepared to clean electrical contacts, use penetrating oil on every bolt before you take stuff apart, replace weather strips, chase rust, etc.

6) Having said all that, I love mine. It has been a great way to introduce my boys to working on cars and spend quality time with them. We have fun driving it around town, use it for hauling things I wouldn't want to haul in the Sienna, pulling a small boat, etc. We do not use it as a daily driver, but I would have little hesitation in doing so now that some of the more common trouble areas have been checked and taken care of as needed. Is there more to do on it? Always!

I hope I have not discouraged you in your quest! Good luck in your search!

 

[Alabama Mike]

Kerry Ann, I will echo what cpf240 says. When spending 2K on a M1009 your buying a "pig in a poke" as the old southerners say. With that said, I found mine on eBay for 1500.00. The truck belonged to a an EMA in Tennessee, I called and talked to the gentleman before the bid and he related that he was the last one to drive the truck, but it had been sitting for 2 - 3 years. So I bid and won, and went after it with a trailer. After drain the old fuel, changing the oil, placed all the filters and giving it a good once over the old truck fired to life. and I've been driving it ever since. guess what I'm trying to say is that there are still some bargains out there, look hard ,be patient and be prepared that you might have to have some work done on one.

Now with all that said I will tell you a quick side story about my "bargain", After I bought it my wife found out that the truck was located only 40 miles from Gatlinburg in the great smoky mountains, So the trip to get the truck also turn out to be a 5 day stay in the mountains that probably cost me between 1500- 2000 dollars, so turns out my "bargain" actually cost me alot more in the long run. LOL!!!!