Deuce ate a valve seat

[lowflybye]

The #2 cylinder got hungry and ate the exhaust valve seat...made a good mess of the piston and sleeve as well and spit some of the small pieces into the turbo. Looks like I will need a set of new pistons, rings, and sleeves (may as well replace them all while I'm in here) as well as some machine work on the head and a new exhaust valve. I think my turbo survived without any damage, but may replace it as well just to be safe.

And so begins my adventure with Deuce maintenance.

 

[porkysplace]

You should add rod and main bearings ,along with rod bolts to the list , if your that far into it.

 

[uscgmatt]

What was going on when it happened?

 

[Heavysteven]

Ditto, please describe the events that happen before the failure.

 

[gungearz]

That blows..... How did it happen?

 

[gringeltaube]

The #2 cylinder got hungry and ate the intake valve seat........

Ouchhhh...... that hurts, just watching the pics!



(.... although I can see that intake seat is still in place........ !? )


G.

 

[lowflybye]

Ouchhhh...... that hurts, just watching the pics!



(.... although I can see that intake seat is still in place........ !? )


G.

The valve is still there, but the seat has become one with the head of the piston...the pieces not hammered into the piston can be seen on the paper in the photo. The valve is sitting up in the head about 1/8" further than it should.

I'll post more about it when I get to a computer tomorrow...too hard to type it all on the phone.

 

[RAYZER]

Bummer! If it were mine,id'e find a used motor and throw it in,it would be cheaper.

 

[lowflybye]

(.... although I can see that intake seat is still in place........ !? )


G.

Sorry...it should read exhaust valve...its been a long day.

I'll fix it for future reference

 

[patracy]

Do yourself a favor, just replace the engine. I wasted a lot of time and effort to repair a cracked block only to later have the heads go south. With some shopping, you can find an engine that will cost less than the repairs to that one. Plus you'll end up with spares in the end. There's very little wiring and plumbing to these engines. Besides the driveshaft, shifter, and clutch linkage. There's only four bolts holding the engine/trans in. The grill/radiator are pretty easy to remove as well.

 

[lowflybye]

I've considered a new (used) engine, but the damage seems to be limited to this piston and head...I am just replacing the other stuff while I have it apart as it had some blow by and while I have it apart it is a good time to do so. This one was running strong prior to this issue...if I repair it with new parts I have an overhauled engine...my fear in replacing it with another used engine is the possibility of a similar issue that can't be predicted.

I have considered both options and am leaning towards repairing...it looks about 50/50 right now.

 

[patracy]

Just know this, as soon as you pull the bottom end apart, you'll see bearing wear. I went as far to re-sleeve all 6 holes in mine. I got a great deal on the kits, but I still ended up soaking $750 or more into that motor. It lasted a little while, but died later on. I picked up a bare engine for $300 (no turbo, starter, or IP) It had a few gallons of water in the pan below the oil (rainwater). I drained the water and it's been fine. It's all a roll of the dice. But shopping around will pay off.

I thought I was saving time/money going about it the other way. Until I got so disgusted with this problem engine that I bought the first good deal I found. So far so good. If it happens again, I'll just save a few more dollars and swap an LDS in.

 

[lowflybye]

We have the pan off and it looks surprisingly good...I may have gotten lucky other than the seat eating.

I have the truck in one of my bays at the shop and the techs work on it if / when we are slow on customer autos...labor is not an issue for me at this point so I don't mind rebuilding the entire engine provided I can get the parts at a decent price.

 

[gringeltaube]

...........if I repair it with new parts I have an overhauled engine...my fear in replacing it with another used engine is the possibility of a similar issue that can't be predicted......

My thoughts, as well; it just feels better knowing what you have in there...

Just in case, have that rod checked, also.

.......still ended up soaking $750 or more into that motor. It lasted a little while, but died later on.

Died? how? You mentioned it had a cracked block....???

If it happens again, I'll just save a few more dollars and swap an LDS in

... which hopefully doesn't fail like the OP's....

Guess, we all learned already that these motors all are like those "box of chocolates"...; all of them, including a gov. rebuild LDS...!



G.

 

[cattlerepairman]

I have the truck in one of my bays at the shop and the techs work on it if / when we are slow on customer autos...labor is not an issue for me at this point so I don't mind rebuilding the entire engine provided I can get the parts at a decent price.

Ahhhh...that is some needed background. You have the decisive home advantage right there! I would lean towards the "replace engine" route simply because of the time and labour involved if all you have is you as "soldier A" to do the rebuild. For your situation, the repair makes complete sense.

 

[patracy]

Died? how? You mentioned it had a cracked block....???

... which hopefully doesn't fail like the OP's....

When I first bought the deuce the crankcase oil was milky. Coolant was leaking into the crankcase from a crack in #6 behind the liner. I tried to patch it. I V'ed out the crack and drilled the ends. Then welded it back up. (Nickle rod) Ground the weld down and honed the hole. Epoxied over the area for a back up. Never had any more problems from that point. However early this summer I noticed the temp spiked on the way into town. I thought it was the t-stat so I yanked it out. It was ok after that. I drove it like that most of the summer. After a parade a month ago, the temp soared to 220F all the time. Got back home and it was at 240. When I shut it off the last time, it made some boiling sounds in the exhaust. So I assume the heads have developed an issue. I decided to wipe my hands of it at that point.

 

[gringeltaube]

Patracy, I do understand your point of view: lonely Soldier A, always too busy....long fight, man vs. machine; man lost.... = frustrating experience, at least! (= )

Still, I would have pulled the heads before throwing the towel; maybe it's just headgaskets? ... eventually do a valve job & resurface...? Even completely replace a head, if in doubt...?

OK, that's just me, in a country where these (used) engines can be imported legally, yes... with a special permit from the local DOT, yes... costing $5000 or more, after taxes and all, yes... (and then you still need another crankshaft, yes... after discovering that the one that came in that nice LDS465-1A was in two pieces, no... YES....! )

Let's hope you can find a sound 5ton MF engine, soon!


G.

 

[DieselBob]

.if I repair it with new parts I have an overhauled engine...my fear in replacing it with another used engine is the possibility of a similar issue that can't be predicted.
.

Having the time to do it I would much prefer to do a rebuild. That gives you the chance to magnaflux and check the rods for stretch and twist considering how they seem to love to try to escape. Also you can take the opportunity to mic the crank for wear and out of round journals and runout.

 

[lowflybye]

Ahhhh...that is some needed background. You have the decisive home advantage right there!

Yes, I do indeed have a home field advantage...still not cheap when it comes to parts though and that stings the wallet.

 

[lowflybye]

What was going on when it happened?

Ditto, please describe the events that happen before the failure.

That blows..... How did it happen?

So there I was... always wanted to start a story that way.

Nothing out of the ordinary on a drive home...I was doing about 45 mph and everything seemed normal. I began to notice that I was having to add more throttle to maintain speed and noticed the exhaust getting darker (more black). THe temps had been holding steady around 190 - 200 and I noticed that it was creeping up to 220. I was only about 2 miles from the house so I shifted down and attempted to limp on to the house at 20 mph and low RPM. This all happened in about 60 seconds...I would estimate that within another 60 seconds of slowing down I heard a bang and the exhaust went freight train black. At this point I was turning into the neighborhood and limped on to the house at idle in 2nd gear. About 50 yards from the driveway it began to knock and puff white smoke. I shut her down in front of the house and towed her to the shop where we cracked her open and found the problem.

I'll be back with some background on the truck in a future installment.