bigginstactical
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I was racking my brain on how I missed that.... I re read his post multiple times and looked through the pictures and couldn't see anything about ac! Mind blown. haha Thanks!
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M1009: Electrical issues (12v conversion)
- Thread starter I_Publius
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I_Publius
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Yep...there is an AC and no second alternator, for sure. Also has a 12v starter. Sorry for not clearing that up in the beginning.
It was in the "What have you done to your CUCV" thread. Easy to miss. Another great reason to keep all your posts on an issue in one thread.
This thread will stay as is, as it will cover most of his issues. We will keep it going until the starting issues are resolved
This thread will stay as is, as it will cover most of his issues. We will keep it going until the starting issues are resolved
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One thing that I haven't done but others have is to "lightly" wedge a potato in the tail pipe. Just make sure nothing (no one) is in its path. Potato Gun.
Looking at all your pictures in other posts, it looks like your GP system is still wired for 24v. That means that your plugs are only getting ~5-6v. Not enough to get them hot. Post a picture of the GP relay and where the red wire goes.
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I_Publius
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GP relay pics
Do these help, or do I need to get close up pics of the firewall area?
Oh, and thanks!
Do these help, or do I need to get close up pics of the firewall area?
Oh, and thanks!
K9Vic
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Looks like you also have a Ford relay, that would mean that it is not an isolated ground and very bad. If you remove all the contacts and check to see if one of the small terminals grounds out to the base, it is not isolated. If it is mounted in rubber bushings and the base to screws are not making contact to the firewall, it would be OK.
I also see what Warthog saw, the resistor bank looks to be used, so 1/2 the voltage from 12v. I had a M1010 with that issue after a city did a 12v conversion, once I correctly connected the relay to 12v, the GP system worked. But you want to make sure you relay is isolated.
I also see what Warthog saw, the resistor bank looks to be used, so 1/2 the voltage from 12v. I had a M1010 with that issue after a city did a 12v conversion, once I correctly connected the relay to 12v, the GP system worked. But you want to make sure you relay is isolated.
Skinny
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Wow...goes to show you any idiot can attempt to fix cars. I can't believe someone would convert a truck from 24v to 12v without changing the GP system. I could see someone putting any old solenoid in there. Amazing how things get so F'd up in 30 years.
I think you are on your way. Good luck with the repairs! It's well worth it.
I think you are on your way. Good luck with the repairs! It's well worth it.
I_Publius
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you guys are actually gonna make me learn something today.
Good...I need to get my brain off of politics and such.
Thanks again!!
Good...I need to get my brain off of politics and such.
Thanks again!!
I_Publius
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So, forgive me for asking, but the Ford relay and the resistor bank are two separate components? Do you Ford relay is the GP relay. Correct?
The resistor bank is the metal plate and resistors behind the air cleaner housing.
The Ford relay is a name for a type of relay used on MANY Ford vehicles. Usually they use the mounting bracket for the ground. This is a major problem with the CUCV glow plug system. The reason is the GP system has the Hotwire for the relay coil hot whenever the key is on. The controller card closes the ground when the GPs are needed. If the mounting bracket is used for ground the coil is energized whenever the key is on and the GPs are always on. That burns them out.
The Ford relay is a name for a type of relay used on MANY Ford vehicles. Usually they use the mounting bracket for the ground. This is a major problem with the CUCV glow plug system. The reason is the GP system has the Hotwire for the relay coil hot whenever the key is on. The controller card closes the ground when the GPs are needed. If the mounting bracket is used for ground the coil is energized whenever the key is on and the GPs are always on. That burns them out.
Skinny
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Resistor needs to be bypassed. Wire going between resistor and solenoid needs to be redirected to the 12v post which is within reach of the wire, just install a new terminal. The solenoid is separate. If you search, there are plenty of write ups on here for both.
It is ALIVE!!!!!
Spent the day removing a rats nest of "extra" LEO wiring, rewired for the Rosscommonequipment 12v conversion,turned the key and after 10 years of sitting, she finally woke up from her slumber.
There will be pictures but something about a 4:30am dove hunt was mentioned.
Spent the day removing a rats nest of "extra" LEO wiring, rewired for the Rosscommonequipment 12v conversion,turned the key and after 10 years of sitting, she finally woke up from her slumber.
There will be pictures but something about a 4:30am dove hunt was mentioned.
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I_Publius
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Yes, I am out Dove hunting, as we speak. Not seeing anything, but I am out hunting. I will definitely send over pictures when I get a chance to upload them. Thanks again for you guys help yesterday. Literally, I could never have done this without your help.
Barrman
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Glad to hear all is good. It was nice to meet you as well.
I_Publius
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Wiring mess
Here are a couple of pics I took and a pic of the newly rebuilt starter before I fried it!
First is a pic of the newly rebuilt 12v starter that I burnt up. I'm not sure if it was due to the way the electrical system was set up or my trying to crank her too much before the electric was set correctly. Sure hoping it's not another $150 to fix it! Thanks to WartHog for allowing me to borrow an old starter of his to get her running.
Second is a pic of all the wiring that the guys pulled out of the truck. Crazy amount of wiring.
I'll go back out and take a few pictures of the final electrical setup, so that you guys can see how a professional sets it up. (Not me! The three other guys who helped me with her!!)
Here are a couple of pics I took and a pic of the newly rebuilt starter before I fried it!
First is a pic of the newly rebuilt 12v starter that I burnt up. I'm not sure if it was due to the way the electrical system was set up or my trying to crank her too much before the electric was set correctly. Sure hoping it's not another $150 to fix it! Thanks to WartHog for allowing me to borrow an old starter of his to get her running.
Second is a pic of all the wiring that the guys pulled out of the truck. Crazy amount of wiring.
I'll go back out and take a few pictures of the final electrical setup, so that you guys can see how a professional sets it up. (Not me! The three other guys who helped me with her!!)
I_Publius
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Uggg...I know....nice burnt smell...doesn't leave the nostrils too soon, for sure....
Yep...tubing and tire are on my list to accomplish this week. That and getting her registered, insured, new plates, and inspected at some point.
Yep...tubing and tire are on my list to accomplish this week. That and getting her registered, insured, new plates, and inspected at some point.
A recap as to what was done:
Barrman, wife and son came up from south TX to to Plano to visit in his mother-in-law. I was coming down from OKC to hand off some MV parts and deliver a M715. We decided that to would be good time to pay a visit to this problem MV.
Opening the hood introduced us to the LEO creative wiring. A few head scratches and a simple question of "Are you attached to any of this?" set us on our path.
An hour or so of "extra" wire removal revealed that most of the stock wiring was there and usable.
One of the "extras" was a manual starter switch. They had cut off the purple wire at the starter and ran a 12ga wire from the starter to a switch on the dash and then to the 12v positive terminal block. All that was removed and repaired.
We used the old "starter" button for a new manual GP button as the condition of the GP controller was in question.
The wiiring was fixed for the RosscommonEquipment 12v conversion and the GP resistor pack removed. We now have a 12v truck.
Finally it was time to crank it over. Nothing. Nada. Sadly it was time for Barrman to head back to his In-laws for ribs...... (he didn't even save me any)
Pulling the starter revealed that it was damaged. Time to install the spare 12v gear reduction I had brought along. A few curse words later the starter was installed (all the wiring, while not perfect is functional) it was time to crank it over.
Hey wait a minute. The GP system seems to be working properly!!!![[thumbzup]](https://www.steelsoldiers.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumzup.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbzup]")
The first crank sounded good. The second crank and she belched some black smoke. The third crank and she came to life.
After sleeping for 10 years she was purring right along like she never skipped a beat. And she was blowing stuff out the tail pipe. What was it? It was a rats nest.
After about ten minutes of idling and restarting it was time for a test drive. The rear flat tire wasn't an issue as the tire sidewall was already split. Even the missing vacuum line for transmission wasn't an issue. Put her in gear, pushed on the pedal and she moved. A little more fuel and off she rolled. Around the parking lot she went.
First time in years she had moved on her own.
There are things to check and things to fit but at least we now have something to work with.
Barrman, wife and son came up from south TX to to Plano to visit in his mother-in-law. I was coming down from OKC to hand off some MV parts and deliver a M715. We decided that to would be good time to pay a visit to this problem MV.
Opening the hood introduced us to the LEO creative wiring. A few head scratches and a simple question of "Are you attached to any of this?" set us on our path.
An hour or so of "extra" wire removal revealed that most of the stock wiring was there and usable.
One of the "extras" was a manual starter switch. They had cut off the purple wire at the starter and ran a 12ga wire from the starter to a switch on the dash and then to the 12v positive terminal block. All that was removed and repaired.
We used the old "starter" button for a new manual GP button as the condition of the GP controller was in question.
The wiiring was fixed for the RosscommonEquipment 12v conversion and the GP resistor pack removed. We now have a 12v truck.
Finally it was time to crank it over. Nothing. Nada. Sadly it was time for Barrman to head back to his In-laws for ribs...... (he didn't even save me any)
Pulling the starter revealed that it was damaged. Time to install the spare 12v gear reduction I had brought along. A few curse words later the starter was installed (all the wiring, while not perfect is functional) it was time to crank it over.
Hey wait a minute. The GP system seems to be working properly!!!
The first crank sounded good. The second crank and she belched some black smoke. The third crank and she came to life.
After sleeping for 10 years she was purring right along like she never skipped a beat. And she was blowing stuff out the tail pipe. What was it? It was a rats nest.
After about ten minutes of idling and restarting it was time for a test drive. The rear flat tire wasn't an issue as the tire sidewall was already split. Even the missing vacuum line for transmission wasn't an issue. Put her in gear, pushed on the pedal and she moved. A little more fuel and off she rolled. Around the parking lot she went.
First time in years she had moved on her own.
There are things to check and things to fit but at least we now have something to work with.
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Battery wiring to fix/replace:
While all trucks will not be this way we are working with what we have on your truck.
I'm looking at the pictures and going from memory.
1 - replace/repair the red cable for the starter. Reinstall the cable at the 5-post terminal block and the starter
2 - replace the red cable from the 3-post terminal block to the frame with a black cable
3 - replace the red cable from the 3-post terminal block to the rear negative with a black cable
4 - make a new red cable the front battery to the rear battery positive terminals
5 - new lug terminal on the front battery negative terminal
6 - new lug terminal on the red cable from the 5-post terminal block to the rear battery positive terminal
7 - new ring terminal on the 8ga red wire on the rear battery positive terminal
8 - at the rear of the engine, double check that there is a grounding strap going between the engine and cab. It will be a flat weaved wire.
Since you are using the threaded post batteries, you can install the lugs on the cables. Makes it cleaner and easier to install.
You will also want to remove the starter relay and install a jumper wire between the two purple wires. This removes the possibility of the runaway starter.
While all trucks will not be this way we are working with what we have on your truck.
I'm looking at the pictures and going from memory.
1 - replace/repair the red cable for the starter. Reinstall the cable at the 5-post terminal block and the starter
2 - replace the red cable from the 3-post terminal block to the frame with a black cable
3 - replace the red cable from the 3-post terminal block to the rear negative with a black cable
4 - make a new red cable the front battery to the rear battery positive terminals
5 - new lug terminal on the front battery negative terminal
6 - new lug terminal on the red cable from the 5-post terminal block to the rear battery positive terminal
7 - new ring terminal on the 8ga red wire on the rear battery positive terminal
8 - at the rear of the engine, double check that there is a grounding strap going between the engine and cab. It will be a flat weaved wire.
Since you are using the threaded post batteries, you can install the lugs on the cables. Makes it cleaner and easier to install.
You will also want to remove the starter relay and install a jumper wire between the two purple wires. This removes the possibility of the runaway starter.