My Fuel Issues

[Joeinderry]

I know you're all getting sick of fuel issues but heres mine.
Bought a deuce (multifuel), it wasn't running but I don't mind challenges. It had sat for probably 10 years not run. Got it home and sprayed some ether in it, it started and stalled. Opened up bleeder, no fuel. Fuel pump was in pieces in tank. Replaced fuel pump. Bled system. Still would not start. Checked fuel stop under the cover and it moves freely. Changed all filters (they weren't horrible looking). Turned on fuel pump heard what sounded like a kinked hose. Found the copper fuel line that comes from the primary filter to the secondaries crushed flat! Hows that happen? Replaced it. Bled system still no start. Tried more ether but just starts and stalls. Disconnected fuel lines from injectors, no fuel coming out while cranking. Took cover off the fuel shutoff and looked inside while my daughter cranked, could see the gear inside spinning. Pulled fuel line off injector pump (one that goes to the top of the injectors with the in tank pump on fuel flowed). Tried one more time with ether and it started and stalled. Any ideas from here. Any pictures of the injector pump with descriptions of the parts that I will be looking to test. What is the HH? Thanks for any help.

 

[peashooter]

Well, I can give you some pictures anyway. The Hydraulic head is the part I removed in these pictures to replace a couple orings. Its the round cylinder part sitting on top of the Injector pump, its the thing the injector lines all run into. There is a secondary pump on the bottom of the injector pump also as an FYI, some call it a "transfer pump". The In tank pump puts out around 10psi of fuel through the primary filter and up to the transfer pump, which increases the pressure up to around 80psi or something at higher idles before finally going into the secondary/final filters and then into the Injector pump/hydraulic head.

 

[Joeinderry]

Thanks Aaron that helps a lot.

 

[peashooter]

Sure. HERE is a good thread about fuel problem troubleshooting also. I think a somewhat common problem also is the clip on the bottom of the hydraulic head breaks off (retaining clip below the spring). It keeps the pump from working I believe. The part is cheap to replace, however its usually a sign of larger problems that almost always require a new hydraulic head. You can get new chinese made Hydraulic heads off of ebay or from TNJmurray for between $300-500. TNJ had the $300 price a while back, but it might have been a special.

 

[Joeinderry]

I'm lucky enough to have a good running parts truck to steal parts from. I will Take the HH apart this weekend and see if there's anything suspicious.
thanks again.

 

[m-35tom]

either the bottom clip has broken or the plunger is stuck in the up position. both will probably require a new HH.

 

[Joeinderry]

Still Trying

Here's a pic of the problem child. Anyway today I took apart the side of the hydraulic head. The plunger moves up and down freely. Everything looks fine in that area. I tried again to start but still no fuel at the injectors.

 

[m-35tom]

what are you calling the plunger? you must remove the plug from the center top and with a WOODEN dowl check for plunger movement when cranking. also the shutoff control must have the little pin in the end propperly engaged in the fuel control block that is around the plunger. with the pin missing there will be no fuel injected. you also need some pressure at the final filter so the plunger will get a fuel charge.

 

[Joeinderry]

Still guessing

I went into the side of the hydraulic head with a pick and in the groove I pushed up and down on the plunger to see if it moved freely. (I only assume this is the plunger) please correct me if im wrong. I attached a pic of that little pin, its still in place. I will take out the top plug tomorrow and see if the wooden dowel will move up and down while cranking.

 

[Joeinderry]

Couldn't wait until tomorrow to pull that plug and check plunger. The plunger was stuck up. Used a wooden dowel to give it a push and it became unstuck. Had wife crank while I watched (with the fuel pump unplugged) I held some pressure on it with the dowel and it went up and down until I took the dowel off it would stick at the top. Noticed a small clip of somesort that is "floating" around on top of plunger. I assume this is a retainer of some kind. Looks like hydraulic head needs to come off now.
Is there a timing procedure for the hydraulic head? I noticed a redmark on the little gear that spins.

 

[m-35tom]

there is nothing on top of the plunger, but most likely you need a new HH. make sure you know what you are doing BEFORE you remove it!

 

[peashooter]

there is nothing on top of the plunger, but most likely you need a new HH. make sure you know what you are doing BEFORE you remove it!

Ditto!
Read up before you pull that thing out, or you will have a tricky time getting the new one in. The engine has to be rotated so the red mark on the gear is lined up properly for it to come out and the new one to go in.
Check out THIS post

 

[panshark]

Excuse me, but you said you bled the system...when you bled the final fuel filter, you had the in-tank pump running, and you were able to get fuel galore spurting out of the bleeder? The reason I ask is because you didn't say if you had pulled/inspected any of the filters...

 

[Joeinderry]

I replaced all 3 filters, they didn't look that bad.

 

[Joeinderry]

Took off the Hydraulic Head

In the first picture you can see the washer had fallen off. The keepers and the little clip were also in there. If you look at the gear on the right there is a small piece of metal trapped on top, couldn't pull it out with needle nose, its stuck real good.
The second pic. is before I took the HH out. You will notice a tiny piece of metal on top of the plunger. I guess my next step is to remove the entire injection pump (never done this before). I will also remove the one off my parts truck, and swap it over. Anyone have good pics of timing marks etc... or advice?

 

[peashooter]

Joe, cant you just put your spare Hydraulic head into this injection pump? I might of missed something but it looks like the only damage was to the HH head correct?

 

[Joeinderry]

There is still that piece of metal jammed in the gear on the IP. Havent spent much time trying to get it out. I don't have any daylight left after work so I will have to wait til Saturday.

 

[welldigger]

Are you talking about that sliver of sheet metal on the top side of the drive gear? Cause if you are that is supposed to be there. That disk of metal has a crescent cut out that when timed correctly (as you do) allows you to remove the HH.

 

[m-35tom]

the HH drive gear looks very damaged. did you know how to remove the HH, or did you just rip it out as some have done? changing the whole IP is a complete waste of time, usually. but now that the HH is out how do you know it was in the ONE position that it will come out in? if you can't answer these questions, you are way ahead of yourself and need to rethink this thing.

 

[Joeinderry]

I set the crank at TDC and made sure the red paint on the gear was visible. I pulled and wiggled the HH out. Hope I did it right?