Runaway Multifuel cutoff?

[army70deuce]

This question originally came about when my dad's marine deisel engine was professionally rebuilt, ran away, rebuilt again, ran away....I'm about ready to dispose of it with thermite. Anyway, I don't care about the cost more the sure fix. I know you can smother it with the fire extinguisher if you can't get a good seal on the intake, but I'm still aiming for a simple professional mechnical method that can be operated from the cab with a GIANT "EMERGENCY SHUT-OFF" labled T- handle, so any passenger or operator knows when something isn't right and the fuel shut-off doesn't work to just pull and you're done. Probably going to put it between the turbo and the engine, that way even if the turbo is leaking it won't matter and you won't have to worry about leaks in the airbox.

 

[Kohburn]

CO2

not sure the duration of a CO2 blast int he intake required to smother it, but you could easily rig up a 20oz or more CO2 tank with an electronic nitrous purge valve that would pump the co2 into the intake.

would run about 100$ in brand new parts. or much much less if you get used parts like paintball co2 tanks etc.

I think I have everything i need to do that, I was actually planning to use it for an emergency fire supression setup.

 

[jesusgatos]

I've been talking with the folks at Roda Deaco about developing a throttle cutoff 'kit' for our deuces (and multifuel 5-tons). But they have all the parts a person would need to install one right now, and I would guess they have parts that could be made to fit most other diesel applications.

 

[Kohburn]

wouldn't a butterfly intake cutoff also function as well for engine braking as an exhaust brake? works OK for gas engines depending on compressions ratio.

don't know if an exhaust brake would be able to shut down the engine but it should atleast limit the rpm to safe levels. (don't know how it would affect EGT's)

I like things with multiple functions rather than specialized components for every task.

 

[wdbtchr]

This question originally came about when my dad's marine deisel engine was professionally rebuilt, ran away, rebuilt again, ran away....I'm about ready to dispose of it with thermite. Anyway, I don't care about the cost more the sure fix. I know you can smother it with the fire extinguisher if you can't get a good seal on the intake, but I'm still aiming for a simple professional mechnical method that can be operated from the cab with a GIANT "EMERGENCY SHUT-OFF" labled T- handle, so any passenger or operator knows when something isn't right and the fuel shut-off doesn't work to just pull and you're done. Probably going to put it between the turbo and the engine, that way even if the turbo is leaking it won't matter and you won't have to worry about leaks in the airbox.

There was a thread bout this very subject a while back, I think last summer, I couldn't find it can't remembe the exact wording. There is a sealed slide valve the right size to cut off the air between the air filter and intake. It was stainless steel and cable operated. Maybe someone else remember the thread and can find it.

 

[thordehr]

That's a guillotine, probably like a couple of the ones shown here. I'm thinking it should be attached directly to the incoming air side of the turbo. It's subjected to less heat there and could be done with silicone turbo boost clamps. This also cuts down on the number of possible air entry points like leaking hoses, air cleaner, etc that would not allow it to completely choke off the incoming air. If it was between the turbo and the intake, it might have to be structural, could move the turbo out of position a bit and would mess with exhaust routing.
A guillotine is the preferred valve over a butterfly as it is a one piece valve and better supported all around it's perimeter when closed.
A butterfly valve plate is attached to the shaft by only two very small screws and even if they hold up, they only attach it to a very thin shaft. In normal open position, a butterfly restricts airflow just by the presence of the butterfly plate and shaft in the intake flow even though they're in the faired open position. A guillotine when open is entirely out of the way causing no restriction at all.

 

[army70deuce]

I looked at the Roda Deaco and really like their setup, does anyone have the diameter of the air intake between the turbo and the engine, I still plan on putting it as close to the engine as possible and don't have access to my deuce for a measurement. 1970 AM General M35A2.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Stan Leschert]

Up here, alot of the fish boats ran Jimmies. Needless to say, they had way too many hours on them, and the internals were looser than a goose. SOP was to keep a 5lb CO2 extinguisher near the intake, and when it started to grenade, dump the entire thing. It always worked.

BYW DO NOT use Dry Chem extingishers, unless YOU can afford to replace the engine!
CO2 works best, and by the time that you could block off the intake, you would already be coverd in hot flying bits of metal!

 

[jesusgatos]

I looked at the Roda Deaco and really like their setup, does anyone have the diameter of the air intake between the turbo and the engine, I still plan on putting it as close to the engine as possible and don't have access to my deuce for a measurement. 1970 AM General M35A2.

Thanks for all the help.

Call 780.465.4429 and ask to talk to Ken Williams. He helped me (Jesse Katz) put together a list of all the parts that a person would need to adapt their throttle cutoff system of a Deuce.

 

[Another Ahab]

Call 780.465.4429 and ask to talk to Ken Williams. He helped me (Jesse Katz) put together a list of all the parts that a person would need to adapt their throttle cutoff system of a Deuce.

Admittedly a thread here with some whiskers (2010!), but is there somebody other than Ken Williams at Roda Deaco to chat up? He's no longer a part of their operation, apparently. (Jesus, I'll PM you about this in case you know more).

 

[Floridianson]

No one has talked about just putting a selonoid valve with a toggle on and off switch in line with the fuel line from the final to HH. My Lorane Crane has one on the Cummins 4B.

 

[HanksDeuce]

No one has talked about just putting a selonoid valve with a toggle on and off switch in line with the fuel line from the final to HH. My Lorane Crane has one on the Cummins 4B.

You have to worry about the turbo oiling system being a fuel source also if one of the seals goes kaput. Shutting off the air is the easiest fix to solve any fuel source problem for a runaway diesel engine.

Put one before the turbo inlet and call it a day. Peace of mind.

[EDIT: Called for pricing on cable operated ESD shutdown valves. Ouch! 3" model 300MC = $600. 4" model 400MC = $725.]

http://www.esdvalves.com/esd-valves/manual-shutdown-valve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiqaDXNYqrI

 

[gimpyrobb]

If someone wants butterfly valves, I know a guy...

I will get some onfo on size and price and post back.


Edit 5" valves for $50(maybe 60 shipped, he needs to look into it.).

 

[Another Ahab]

Don't know how much these manual valves are, but put one before the turbo inlet and call it a day. Peace of mind.

http://www.esdvalves.com/esd-valves/manual-shutdown-valve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiqaDXNYqrI

Great suggestion. This DOES seem like the cleanest, simplest, definitive solution to the problem, and thank you to HanksDeuce for this nugget.

And I recall there was also a final recommendation to seal the fording aperture(s) in the turbo also, that right? Anything else to consider?

 

[Floridianson]

I just through it out there. I don't even worrie about the Multifuel motor running away. The only one or two that have hapened were because of a HH control shaft sticking from long turm no use most likely. I think if everything is working today it will not just run away with you tomorrow. Like said DD have more of a problem with a stuck rack than any outher I would bet. Good boy scout be perpared so start Deuce in high range ready to drop 5th if you realy worrie about a run away multifuel. Truth is money spent would be flowers for the one that makes you happy. If your not happy sorry.

PS start your multifuel with the shut down cable pulled and check for hyrdo lock if it don't run away there is no problem with the IP.
If it does not shut down with the cable pull than it will just wear a little clutch and stop. ( you don't have to dump the clutch just let it out like you do whan driving). Fix the control shaft and broken shut down cable.
You say the turbo will feed it but if you got the old style filters there is no oil at the turbo for as we know a long time. I would hope you decide to shut it down before that. As for removing the mushroom cap please you wont have time and if you take that much time on a cold motor with cold oil the dammage is done.

 

[FLYWHEEL]

Could you use one of these slide gate valves between the mushroom and filter?
I know it would only be a manual way of shutting of the air, but would be easier than pulling the mushroom off and running around looking for something to block the air intake

 

[chestypuller1371]

they even make them rv tank dump valves in electric

 

[rustystud]

I just through it out there. I don't even worrie about the Multifuel motor running away. The only one or two that have hapened were because of a HH control shaft sticking from long turm no use most likely. I think if everything is working today it will not just run away with you tomorrow. Like said DD have more of a problem with a stuck rack than any outher I would bet. Good boy scout be perpared so start Deuce in high range ready to drop 5th if you realy worrie about a run away multifuel. Truth is money spent would be flowers for the one that makes you happy. If your not happy sorry.

PS start your multifuel with the shut down cable pulled and check for hyrdo lock if it don't run away there is no problem with the IP.
If it does not shut down with the cable pull than it will just wear a little clutch and stop. ( you don't have to dump the clutch just let it out like you do whan driving). Fix the control shaft and broken shut down cable.
You say the turbo will feed it but if you got the old style filters there is no oil at the turbo for as we know a long time. I would hope you decide to shut it down before that. As for removing the mushroom cap please you wont have time and if you take that much time on a cold motor with cold oil the dammage is done.

That's why I just went with the fuel shut-off valve installed in front of the injection pump. No reason to blow out your manifold gaskets for a simple over-fuel problem.

 

[Katavic918]

Subscribed

 

[rustystud]

No one has talked about just putting a selonoid valve with a toggle on and off switch in line with the fuel line from the final to HH. My Lorane Crane has one on the Cummins 4B.

I know your post was 2 years ago, but I did recently try and install a Cummins shut-off solenoid on my Deuce. The reason I decided against it was I didn't want to depend on another electrical component to shut down my truck in an emergency situation. The manually operated valve works just fine and I can reach it through the engine side panel.