Light Issues after heavy duty headlight upgrade

[carter262]

Ok so we got slow and bored today at work. it was raining and sleeting and I had a free bay so we decided to install my new Heavy duty headlight wiring harness.

Install went fine. I checked the lights and appeared to be operating fine. When time to leave no lights at all. Luckily it was still light ok so I drove home. Once I got home checked everything again. No lights at all, including brakes. Checked fuses all good. Found a red wire with an inline fuse unplugged that appears to run into the back of the fuse box. I plugged it into the open continuous slot on fuse box and voila lights, well most lights. Reverse and appears brake lights stay on even when you turn the lights off or turn the key off. Just a side note I don't think the reverse lights were working before. Also after installing the new wiring harness I didn't look at the brake lights so I don't know if it was doing it right after the install. I did pull the relay at the top right of the fuse box to see if it was bad due my horn not working so I might of pulled the red wire out then, not sure.

So to sum up brake and reverse light want turn off, no horn, but have new headlight wiring harness. I am at a loss. Has anyone else had this problem.

1984 M1009
24v

 

[Warthog]

You have to find out where the red wire goes. Could be that someone bypassed the headlight fuse at some time. Read the headlight sticky to find out what all the headlight fuse ultimately controls.

 

[carter262]

You have to find out where the red wire goes. Could be that someone bypassed the headlight fuse at some time. Read the headlight sticky to find out what all the headlight fuse ultimately controls.

Thanks warthog,

i have read the sticky. I plan on tracing the red wire but its cold dark and sleeting right now. Also since I was not having a problem with the brake lights before I am just confused why I am now. What makes them stay one all the time. I thought from what I have read that the new head light harness just removed the head lights from the circuit so if that so installing it should not have cause a problem with the brake light should it?

 

[Warthog]

Maybe that wire you reinstalled is for the brakes. Maybe you are now supplying 12v continuously.

 

[carter262]

Maybe that wire you reinstalled is for the brakes. Maybe you are now supplying 12v continuously.

Thanks that is an idea I'll explore tomorrow

 

[carter262]

Ok so I had time to think last night. I installed the new head light harness, then I check lights and they worked, then I found the red wire and plugged it in while checking the horn relay, then no lights.

So in my mind the red wire shorted or blew something. What could that something be? Any ideas? All the fuses are good.

Thanks for the help

 

[Warthog]

My question is why the additional red wire. Where they adding something or trying to fix something.

Usually if fuses are good then a fusible link has blown. Just looking at a fuse doesn't tell you if the circuit is hot. A multimeter or testlight is needed.

 

[carter262]

My question is why the additional red wire. Where they adding something or trying to fix something.

Usually if fuses are good then a fusible link has blown. Just looking at a fuse doesn't tell you if the circuit is hot. A multimeter or test light is needed.

Thanks Warthog that was what I started leaning toward too, either a fusible link or shorted out a switch or relay. Any idea where the fusible link(s) are located to help me narrow down where to look. It's still 29 degrees and wet here so I'm about to run into work and borrow a bay. I feel that having lights especially brake light is important. Also if it is a fusible link where do I find replacement ones? Does my local auto part store carry them? I have never had to replace one before.

I'm not sure about the red wire. I'm trying t to figure that out too. am going to pull the fuse box and try and trace it. Then maybe we'll have an idea where it leads too. I it weird though that everything worked until I plugged it in and now nothing works unless I plug it in, But when plugged in Brake lights and reverse light stay on so either way no brake lights.

Warthog thank you for the help. You are the man.

 

[paladin1176]

It's possible the PO tried to use a jumper wire to power the headlights much like the standard relay setup would. Which would mean that all the power that would usually flow through the headlight switch and to the lights could have burned out the switch.

 

[sunway212]

Im no expert maybe its a Bad wires or the fuse box has a short somewhere maybe you need to take it to a vehicle electrician to see where the problem is it could a faulty wire harness or a short some where..Have a good one

 

[carter262]

Ok I have the fuse box apart and have traced the red wire and noticed what I will is a few oddities.

The red wire goes to (if standing in front of vehicle looking into engine compartment) top left of the fuse box. The red wire leads through the wiring harness and runs into a black plastic cylinder then turns orange and goes to the right ride of what appears to be a relay on the firewall left of the glow plug relay.

Now the fuse box (sitting in the driver seat looking out the front window) I have no headlight fuse nor plugs for the fuse to go into. Also on all the diagrams I have looked over the headlight fuse would be the third one down on the right side with the parking / marker fuse as second one down and the first one empty. Mine appears to have (parking / marker ?) in the first slot and the second spot has no fuse and a burnt spot. There was a wire connected at one time time the fuse plug inside the fuse box where it is burnt but is now missing.

Could this be the mysterious red wire?
Could the factor have accidentally put the fuses in this column in the wrong slots?

I am starting to think that paladin1176 could be correct and that there was a problem and they cut out the red wire from the inside fuse box and put a male connector on it and plugged it into the accessory slot. But this does not explain the brake lights and reverse lights staying on when it is plugged in. I don't really believe it is a coincidence that the problem started when I plugged in the red wire. I am trying to figure out now where it should of connect to the side of the fuse box where the fuses went.

 

[paladin1176]

That does sound like a mystery. It almost sounds like they burned out a fuse for the lights and instead of fixing it or moving it correctly they tied it directly to another powered source...the glow plug circuit.

And if the problem started with the "Red Wire" ... might be a good idea to unplug it and find out where it was intended to go. If you poke through the TM you can find out where that orange wire heading to the relay was supposed to go to originally.

Out of curiosity have you found any crossed ground wires in your travels through electrical ****?

 

[cpf240]

It is not unheard of for the fuse box to melt, usually due to old/poor connections, etc leading to things heating up, hence the use of the headlight relay harness upgrade. I suspect it melted on the PO, and instead of fixing it, they band-aided it.

 

[Warthog]

If you read the Headlight Sticky it will show you where the red wire "should" be going to. It supplies power to many circuits.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?87544-CUCV-Headlight-Circuit

It is hot at all times so it doesn't need to be plugged into some other connector. By plugging it in you are now suppling constant power to your stop lights and reverse lights and no telling what else.

Post a picture of where you plugged it into.

Back in highschool I had an MG Midget. I had it in the Autoshop one day and the hood was up. There was a loose wire next to the fusebox and a fellow student thought he would help and pluged it into an open spot on the fusebox. On the drive home, the wiring harness caught fire and almost burned down the car. I had to rebuild the harness.

Moral of the story: Do not plug a loose wire into a fusebox unless you are Sure of where it needs to go.

As far as no horn. It could be that your horn is bad and putting a constant draw on the circuit. That issues has caused the headlight fuse socket to melt on many trucks. (also covered in the headlight sticky)

 

[carter262]

Problem Solved

Thanks Warthog, lesson learned.

Thank you all for your help this is great community. Seems like most people are here to help others. I applaud you.


So here were the problems.

Headlights:

PROBLEM: No headlights
Pulled the fuse box apart and started tracing wires, inspecting connections, inspecting fuses, and so on.
Here is what I found:
The mysterious red wire goes to (if standing in front of vehicle looking into engine compartment) top left of the fuse box. The red wire leads through the wiring harness and runs into a black plastic cylinder then turns orange and goes to the right ride of what appears to be a relay on the firewall left of the glow plug relay. Under the dash it has an inline fuse and male connector on the end.


The parking / marker fuse and the headlight fuse were apparently moved up in the fuse box one slot. The original headlight fuse slot was burnt so at some point it apparently over loaded. I believe that went it burnt they moved it up to have a clean slot for the circuits fuse. In doing so they have to move the parking / marker fuse up too since they are connected inside the fuse box by a bus.
In addition, the new location of the headlight fuse was also burnt. Inside the fuse box at this slot was a connector for the fuse to slide into but the wire had been cut from it. I believe that this is where the red wire originally connected. I this after it burnt the second time they cut it loose and added the inline fuse then plugged it back in to the good connector where the fuse went. That is where I ended up placing it. Now it is feeding the circuit it was intended to. The reason I lost my headlights is because I unknowingly pulled it out I guess.

Brake lights:
PROBLEM: Brake lights engaged all the time.
The fix was really easy. Well kind of, I have to admit I’m an idiot. I was trying to check them by myself by placing a foot on the brake while standing outside the vehicle and leaning to look and see if they were working. Bad, Bad idea. You can’t see them. I thought the red marker light was part of the brake light. It is not my friend. So turns out with the help of a spotter they worked. Or at least one did. I had to change the bulb in the other. Now it works.

Reverse Lights:

PROBLEM: Engaged all the time

After checking wires, grounds, and voltage I moved under the dash. Turns out that the switch on the base of the steering column had come off the steering column. When it came off the level that turns the reverse lights on shifted to engage them. So after reinstalled the switch onto the steering column and adjusting it to active when you shift into reverse I now have reverse lights.

So thank you for your help. Turns out I was wrong, more than thing can go wrong at the same time. Or at least when something goes wrong and you start looking you find other things that were already wrong. I wish the fuse box was set up original but I am not sure how to move everything back short of wiring in a new fuse box. I did clean the connectors while I had the box apart and put in fresh Dielectric grease. So that is something. I also now have a better understanding of the “fixes” that were done prior to my taking ownership of my baby.

 

[Warthog]

Job well done on troubleshooting. Many user wouldn't have the guts to take the fuse box apart.

While it is fresh in your mind make a diagram of how you box is wired. It will help you in the future and any new owners down the road.

Sitting at a keyboard we can help point you in the right direction BUT it takes you on the other end to find the issue. Glad we could help.

 

[carter262]

Job well done on troubleshooting. Many user wouldn't have the guts to take the fuse box apart.

While it is fresh in your mind make a diagram of how you box is wired. It will help you in the future and any new owners down the road.

Sitting at a keyboard we can help point you in the right direction BUT it takes you on the other end to find the issue. Glad we could help.

Thank for the kind words. I went back and reread your Stick on the Headlight Circuit and my mysterious red wire is clearly shown in the diagrams. It runs into the fuse box exactly where I thought it should go. So even though the fix that the previous owners or military did seem out of place it is actually kind of a good solution. I plugged it into the metal bus / jumper bar you described in the sticky. So it still provides power to the metal bar and circuit but the fuse for it in now an inline fuse.

I am with your suggestion. I have a binder I started with stuff I printed off this site for references. I have already updated the diagram of the fuse box to match mine. I agree with you and suggest that everyone who works on their own vehicle do the same when making repairs or when they find something that was "repaired" prior to them taking ownership. Helps out in the long run.

I will try and follow yall's example and help other when I can. This is a learning process but one I enjoy.