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It does, only visible under a microscope. There you can see the formation of layer up on layer of lead sulfate crystals - thats how you get cell stratification.
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Rejuvenate 6TMF battery
- Thread starter hunderliggur
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The formation of homogeneous tetra-basic sulfate crystal structure in the positive plate of a lead acid battery
Most common cause: Battery is under charged when stored and ambient temperature drops.
Most common cause: Battery is under charged when stored and ambient temperature drops.
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o1951
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"The resistance test is more accurate to test a stratified cell's electrolyte. When the electrolyte is stratified then it is primarily H02."
I do not believe the electrolyte stratifies except as I noted.
A flooded lead acid battery does not have HO2 in the electrolyte.
The electrolyte contains H2O - quite different. 2 hydrogen to one oxygen.
Hydrogen has an atomic structure of 1. It cannot share 2 oxygen molecules.
You are showing lead sulfate crystals on a plate, not the electrolyte.
I do not believe the electrolyte stratifies except as I noted.
A flooded lead acid battery does not have HO2 in the electrolyte.
The electrolyte contains H2O - quite different. 2 hydrogen to one oxygen.
Hydrogen has an atomic structure of 1. It cannot share 2 oxygen molecules.
You are showing lead sulfate crystals on a plate, not the electrolyte.
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Update on the rejuvenation of the regular car battery.
The car battery did not respond to any pulse or equalization measures. I therefor further researched the issue at hand. I was quite surprised to find out that the regular car batteries use a lead sulfur paste, rather then conventional Lead Plates, as in the 6TMF batteries.
This Lead Sulfur Paste is usually hardened with an internal tin wire mesh to form a rigid plate before the battery is assembled during manufacturing. Since the paste contains the Sulfur already, all is needed is distilled water and a first charge to form the electrolyte.
Our R&D battery featured here, had been deep discharged and then charged with a 35 Amp Charger, prior to rejuvenation attempts. It turned out that the lead sulfur dioxide paste had been dissolved completely from it's tin wire structure in 3 out of the 6 cells as a result of the deep discharge.
The Tin support wire structure was also completely dissolved in these three cells. There was no electrical conductivity between the top rail of each positive cell and the lead sulfur dioxide past.
The lead sulfur dioxide paste had settled between the separator sheets and partially on the bottom of the battery.
These type of batteries are basically shot the first time they experience a deep discharge and will deteriorate with each regular charge / discharge cycle anyway. Life expectancy is probably 36 month at the best and don't leave your headlights on. That will kill the battery in one setting.
These type of batteries cannot be repaired or rejuvenated at all.
Here are the pictures of one of the totally destructed cell's:
Picture of the dissolved lead sulfur dioxide paste - the long metal piece in the middle of the separator sheet is the left over tin support bracket for the tin wire frame the lead sulfur dioxide paste was once attached to:
Detail Picture of the picture above:
Detail Picture of the picture above:
Picture of the Negative, intact lead paste plate with separator sheet removed.
The left bar is the Negative bar for this cell and the right bar is the positive bar.
One can see on how the tin wire mesh of the anode is completely gone. Only the top anchor bar for the mesh is still there:
Detail view of the picture above:
Electrolyte with dissolved lead sulfur dioxide paste which settles on the bottom:
Detail Picture of Picture above:
The car battery did not respond to any pulse or equalization measures. I therefor further researched the issue at hand. I was quite surprised to find out that the regular car batteries use a lead sulfur paste, rather then conventional Lead Plates, as in the 6TMF batteries.
This Lead Sulfur Paste is usually hardened with an internal tin wire mesh to form a rigid plate before the battery is assembled during manufacturing. Since the paste contains the Sulfur already, all is needed is distilled water and a first charge to form the electrolyte.
Our R&D battery featured here, had been deep discharged and then charged with a 35 Amp Charger, prior to rejuvenation attempts. It turned out that the lead sulfur dioxide paste had been dissolved completely from it's tin wire structure in 3 out of the 6 cells as a result of the deep discharge.
The Tin support wire structure was also completely dissolved in these three cells. There was no electrical conductivity between the top rail of each positive cell and the lead sulfur dioxide past.
The lead sulfur dioxide paste had settled between the separator sheets and partially on the bottom of the battery.
These type of batteries are basically shot the first time they experience a deep discharge and will deteriorate with each regular charge / discharge cycle anyway. Life expectancy is probably 36 month at the best and don't leave your headlights on. That will kill the battery in one setting.
These type of batteries cannot be repaired or rejuvenated at all.
Here are the pictures of one of the totally destructed cell's:
Picture of the dissolved lead sulfur dioxide paste - the long metal piece in the middle of the separator sheet is the left over tin support bracket for the tin wire frame the lead sulfur dioxide paste was once attached to:
Detail Picture of the picture above:
Detail Picture of the picture above:
Picture of the Negative, intact lead paste plate with separator sheet removed.
The left bar is the Negative bar for this cell and the right bar is the positive bar.
One can see on how the tin wire mesh of the anode is completely gone. Only the top anchor bar for the mesh is still there:
Detail view of the picture above:
Electrolyte with dissolved lead sulfur dioxide paste which settles on the bottom:
Detail Picture of Picture above:
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About three weeks ago (April 18, 2014) I came across another old battery. This time it was one which was "serviceable", speak the Caps could be removed to check the electrolyte level and do a Top off if necessary.
The battery had spent the winter here out doors, completely discharged and with a remaining fluid level of app. 80%
The battery was exposed in this state to temperatures down to 0 deg during our last Kansas Winter.
The battery measured 0 Volt on the terminals
The battery was topped off with distilled water and hooked up to a regular charger. It would not take any charge.
The battery was then hooked up to our Pulse charger.
After about 5 days of pulse charging three cells recovered.
The Pulse current was set to maximum of 1.5 Amps DC and 22 Volts Peak Pulse
After an additional 2 days the 4th cell started to disintegrate then after another 1 day or so cell 5 and 6 disintegrated (Positive Plates dissolved).
The battery held a charge of 6.8 Volt for more then 14 hours in this state, indicating that 3 out of 6 cells had recovered.
Conclusion:
We will not sell our Pulse Charger, because most batteries can be deemed to be irrecoverable due to a wide variety of reasons.
The most suitable candidate are the 6TMF Batteries and this market is to small for us to offer this Pulse Charger for sale.
Thank you for your interest.
The DUT:
The Pulse Voltage across Terminals
Initial Current Draw of 45mA at the beginning of Pulsing
Detail Pictures of the DUT
The battery had spent the winter here out doors, completely discharged and with a remaining fluid level of app. 80%
The battery was exposed in this state to temperatures down to 0 deg during our last Kansas Winter.
The battery measured 0 Volt on the terminals
The battery was topped off with distilled water and hooked up to a regular charger. It would not take any charge.
The battery was then hooked up to our Pulse charger.
After about 5 days of pulse charging three cells recovered.
The Pulse current was set to maximum of 1.5 Amps DC and 22 Volts Peak Pulse
After an additional 2 days the 4th cell started to disintegrate then after another 1 day or so cell 5 and 6 disintegrated (Positive Plates dissolved).
The battery held a charge of 6.8 Volt for more then 14 hours in this state, indicating that 3 out of 6 cells had recovered.
Conclusion:
We will not sell our Pulse Charger, because most batteries can be deemed to be irrecoverable due to a wide variety of reasons.
The most suitable candidate are the 6TMF Batteries and this market is to small for us to offer this Pulse Charger for sale.
Thank you for your interest.
The DUT:
The Pulse Voltage across Terminals
Initial Current Draw of 45mA at the beginning of Pulsing
Detail Pictures of the DUT
Attachments
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Any idea why the plates disintegrated? It might be informative to take a similar dead battery and cut it apart and look closely at the plates and see if they have fine cracks in them even before pulse charging. That might help too determine if it's problem with the battery construction or if the charging method caused the plates to disintegrate. Were the cells that started to take a charge, the same ones that disintegrated or not them or some of both? Have you tried your pulser on a different brand battery? Perhaps a differently constructed battery wouldn't disintegrate. Or have you tried a lower peak voltage or current? The high current or voltage might be causing the battery plates to disintegrate.
It sounds like the root problem is the generally poor, cheap construction of today's batteries!
I agree that the market for rejuvenating 6TMF batteries is limited but if you find a method that will work on regular auto batteries then the market is MUCH larger!
It sounds like the root problem is the generally poor, cheap construction of today's batteries!
I agree that the market for rejuvenating 6TMF batteries is limited but if you find a method that will work on regular auto batteries then the market is MUCH larger!
MarcusOReallyus
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Pulse charging is a very well proven technology. It doesn't harm batteries.
peapvp is... confused. He has not invented anything new - he's reinventing the wheel.
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Well Dodge man,
The problem is the composition of the new "Plates". Batteries with regular Lead Plates for Anode and Cathode do not experience this type of disintegration as the New Anode Plates, which are a wire frame with a Sulfur-Dioxide Paste around it, which is cured during the Plate assembly during manufacturing.
The 3 cells which recovered did not disintegrate.
I appears that the solid paste dries out when the electrolyte level is to low and the paste becomes exposed to air.
The current is set to 0.1C and the pulse of 22V is very short.
The problem is the composition of the new "Plates". Batteries with regular Lead Plates for Anode and Cathode do not experience this type of disintegration as the New Anode Plates, which are a wire frame with a Sulfur-Dioxide Paste around it, which is cured during the Plate assembly during manufacturing.
The 3 cells which recovered did not disintegrate.
I appears that the solid paste dries out when the electrolyte level is to low and the paste becomes exposed to air.
The current is set to 0.1C and the pulse of 22V is very short.
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whiskey357
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Just buy group replacement wal-mart or interstate battery.....both are good and around 55-75 bucks....or get deep cell marine battery....they well work also....easy way to do it........save alot of time and trouble.......
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Yes, I meant Lead Dioxide - the editing window is a little bit small and as I am getting older the vision is not up to par with our technologies! Time for a new pair of glasses!