Old style head gaskets

[gimpyrobb]

If you have changed your head gaskets and they were the old "tab style" gaskets, what was the failure?

Also, I have heard there were 3 generations of the tab style, how do you tell which is which?

 

[Dieselnatalie]

Our M51A2 blew between 4 and 5, and didn't look too healthy on 2 and 3 either. Luckily it was only a couple of miles from the depot, so nursed back. Memphis Equipment had a full set on the bench here on the other side of the Atlantic in a day plus the 6 hours time difference. As an aside, I cheated by cutting the exhaust beyond the turbo bend and lifting out manifold and turbo as one (shop crane, not this girl).

 

[Floridianson]

One without a tab and the fire rings were free. One with tab and rings free. Last one fire rings are part of the head gasket if I rember right. Pass the Geritol and my glasses please.

 

[Westech]

I use to go up to tom's place in north wi jUst to shoot the **** and we talked about the head gaskets one time. A trick he told me with the old styles was to use the spray copper rtv and put a light coat on them.
Now I have only seen two styles one with the slobber tabs and the late style with the integrated red rtv.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I have read that there is different generations of the "tab" head gaskets. Thats what I am asking for more info on.

 

[Jeepsinker]

One has a flat tab that sticks straight out, one has a tab that sticks down and hugs the block. The block hugger is an earlier version.

 

[m16ty]

I use to go up to tom's place in north wi jUst to shoot the **** and we talked about the head gaskets one time. A trick he told me with the old styles was to use the spray copper rtv and put a light coat on them.

I use the spray copper on almost all head gaskets I install. The only ones I don't use it on is head gaskets like on the Cummins that has all the rubber parts. I know most gasket makers say to install them dry but I've never had a problem with it, I have had problems installing them dry.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I agree 100%. I use the copper spray gasket adhesive on all headgaskets and some other flat gaskets as well. Never had a problem after using the copper "spray a gasket". I believe that is what they call it. I don't have a can handy.

 

[rosco]

The way you Guys talk, blowing a head gasket is immanent. Is that true? Is there that much of a problem? Is the latest generation in gaskets, the one to have? Source?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Rosco, the latest and greatest are made by Victor Reinz. I guess I should post up some pictures so that folks can see which is which. I'll try to get some pics of each this week.

 

[Westech]

The head gasket is a weak link in the engine. Under high speed camera you can see the head lifting off the block during the compression and power stroke.
When I have replaced my gaskets I add 10 foot pounds to the spec. Comp for old bolts (stretch) and a little more clamping force.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Better head studs and good gaskets with coppercote would just about eliminate all of our headgasket failures.

 

[RAYZER]

The way you Guys talk, blowing a head gasket is immanent. Is that true? Is there that much of a problem? Is the latest generation in gaskets, the one to have? Source?

Gimpy, gringeltaube and I just replaced mine (flat tab old style) with the new style head gaskets at the Ga Rally due to a blown compression ring on the back of #3 cylinder, no water in oil or visa versa, no crankcase oil loss, just compression leak.
I had about 15,000 worth of hard running before it completely blew, the old style gaskets had copper spray evidence.
As far as the inevitably of replacing "old style head gaskets ",I would have to say yes, but that may depend on how hard and often you use the truck.
I would like to know if the new style head gaskets are less prone to blow compared to the old style.
On a side note: I started hearing a slight tick about 13,000 miles ago that sounded almost metallic, i adjusted the valves thinking that's what it was and it wasn't.
Always a slight fuel/wmo leak from between the heads down the sides of the block and of course the tick that we decided (had about 10 mechanics listen to it and couldn't put a finger on the noise) was a small exsaust leak that we couldn't find, the engine always ran great untill the tick turned in to a louder topend knock with a lot of fuel loss from that hole and then in the end a distinct large compression leak sound.
I finally figured out what that noise was!

 

[rustystud]

Better head studs and good gaskets with coppercote would just about eliminate all of our headgasket failures.

I agree. We should all start to use the "ARP" head studs. They have a higher torque limit then the stock old bolts anyway. I don't think 20 or even 40 more Ft Ibs torque would hurt with the newer studs.

 

[Westech]

Years ago I contacted arp about rod bolts and they could make them but it a order of 1000 and not cheap!
Should send them a set and see what's up.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Rusty, if you could get the part numbers for the studs from your buddy and post them here it would be great. Then we just need to get them posted in the deuce parts quick reference guide. Same with the 12 point rod bolts. Nobody wants to search through three dozen threads that are 30 pages long to find a part number.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I agree. We should all start to use the "ARP" head studs. They have a higher torque limit then the stock old bolts anyway. I don't think 20 or even 40 more Ft Ibs torque would hurt with the newer studs.

Have you seen the instructions for installing and torquing gaskets? Unless you have a TD(thick deck) block, you are only supposed to go up to 140ftlbs. The TD blocks get 158ish(can't recall right now). Some one needs to find out the depth of each. TD and non-TD.

 

[Jeepsinker]

It would also be worth getting a set of solid copper headgaskets made. Welldigger and I talked about it a while back. They would be expensive, but reusable and very hard to blow. Of course either shellac compound or copper spray gasket would have to be used to ensure a proper lasting seal. There are companies out there that make copper headgaskets to your order.

 

[JasonS]

Have you seen the instructions for installing and torquing gaskets? Unless you have a TD(thick deck) block, you are only supposed to go up to 140ftlbs. The TD blocks get 158ish(can't recall right now). Some one needs to find out the depth of each. TD and non-TD.

I think that it was 157. That "7" seems to suggest something is at an upper limit (stud or deck).

 

[doghead]

I agree. We should all start to use the "ARP" head studs. They have a higher torque limit then the stock old bolts anyway. I don't think 20 or even 40 more Ft Ibs torque would hurt with the newer studs.

What ARP studs? Are you saying they make or previously produced them?

Part numbers and more info please.