HMMWV Starter

[gcbennet]

My starter motor bit the biscuit so I ordered one from Woolfer on EBay NSN 2920-01-507-7423. In the process of pulling the old starter out the first thing I noticed was that the one in the truck is considerably smaller than the new one. As it were, the cables seemed a little jerry-rigged and I discovered wire# 74B had been clipped. The whole starter motor was held in only by the two long vertical bolts because it's too short to reach the support bracket, not that there was a stud on the old motor anyway. The old motor has no marking or stampings, no data plate, or anything identifying what it is. Any ideas?

 

[dmetalmiki]

A temporary bodge?

 

[NDT]

Looks like a cheapo chinese starter. Please tell me your truck did not just come from GP with that on it.

 

[gcbennet]

This is an ex Marine truck from the original '99 Barstow auction and I believe I'm the fourth owner. I'm not going to lie, this truck was pretty rough when I got it from its previous owner in NC. In the process of bringing it back to normal I've come across some pretty nasty band-aid repairs and botched mods that seem to defy common sense. One of the prior owners decided to install the new seat mod, except I discovered it was only half completed at best and the driver's seat base rails were only held on with half of the pop rivets called for in the mod leaflet- and even a few of those were mis-pulls. The seat itself was only held on with 3 of the 4 cap screws because one had snapped and they didn't take the time to properly rectify the fault. I was wondering why the seat was rocking slightly and the flexing rails and missing mounting capscrew were the obvious culprits. Instead of installing the upper pads with the 3-point seatbelt upper attaching points, someone decided it would be good enough to just drill big holes in the pillar. The reinforcing wasn't installed where the seatbelt receptacles mount to the tunnel either. All I can say is it's a good thing this truck was never in an accident because nothing was done right and driver's safety was seriously compromised. The starter is just another find that makes me shake my head and wonder WTH they were thinking.

 

[KansasBobcat]

don't feel badly. Many of the original auction HMMWVs have had many owners. Also, the advice on the sites such as this were not available in the "early days". AM General was no help unless you had an H1. Get advice from the experts on this site and move ahead. They all are fixable. It is a military vehicle! Cost is the only problem. But if you have an on road title go for it. Remember this is a hobby and not an investment. Good luck.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Let me start this by saying I know nothing about hmmwvs, but it appears that the smaller starter might be a gear reduction drive where as the original is a direct drive.


.02

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

And let me tell you also, that wolfer parts is mostly if not all Chinese....prestolite and leece-Neville are the only 2 that come to mind I have ever seen.
you must and I repeat, you must use the rear support stud, it will over time snap the bolts in the block, or even fracture the block...get the newer hooked style, if it's not hooked, the it's the older version.
i too had a truck come through the shop with a starter like that....

 

[gcbennet]

I thought it a little odd that Wolfer had their own data plate riveted to the starter, so that in itself would probably indicate it's a Chinese clone. The FWD stud mount on my truck is unfortunately the older style. The hooked type definitely would have made the install much easier and saved me a lot of cursing so I'll look into upgrading if or when my new Chinese counterfeit starter eventually fails.

 

[papakb]

Hey guys, this is s standard GM starter from a civy truck. The blocks are the same so they'll work but they're half the size of the military starter.

 

[NDT]

Hey guys, this is s standard GM starter from a civy truck. The blocks are the same so they'll work but they're half the size of the military starter.

No wonder his quit working! Poor standard civilian GM 12 volt starter had to live with 24 volts all this time.

 

[gcbennet]

Another issue now- she won't start. Glow plugs light as they should, turn switch, and nothing but a slightly audible hum coming from the S3 box when the switch is turned to the start position. It's like there's no power going to the starter. The S3 box is only a few months old but I checked the cannon plugs for cleanliness and security. All good. I pulled and cleaned the neutral start switch. No issue there. Checked all of the connections to the new starter and confirmed placement with the TM diagram. Good there, too. What am I missing? I forgot to mention that i do absolutely nothing with the electrical components on my vehicles without first disconnecting the batteries.

 

[tage]

Trans not in neutral?
Confirm you're not getting juice to the starter leads?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

You do have the 2 small wires going to the spade tip connector? That's the solenoid....you can test the starter on the ground with 12v's...it will spin the Bendix....or jump it at the starter with 24v's.
i have had starters where that connection is intermittent, thus causing no go's at times...wiggle it, you should have 24v there when you turn the key..if you do, then the solenoid is bad....will take 2 workers to accomplish.

 

[gcbennet]

Mystery solved. While scouring this site as well as the G it was mentioned more than once that the new S3's were prone to failure. So working on that bit of info I pulled my new (only a few months old) S3 and replaced it with the old box that was in my truck when I got it- and boom, she fired right up. This just goes to show that even new parts have the potential to fail, so the moral of the story here is don't rule anything out during troubleshooting.

 

[gcbennet]

Re. my previous post i find myself in the market yet again for a new S3 box if anyone has a good line on one. The supplier i purchased the now dead box from states electronic parts do not come with a replacement warranty.

 

[DatGuyC]

Take it apart and see what you find, just be slow not to break anything. My s3 box has broken twice and both times I was able to get new components and have it repaired by someone skilled at that type of thing.

 

[gcbennet]

Ok so here's a new development. I put the old (non-S3) box back in and the truck started no problem. A few days later I tried to start it again but the wait light just blinked so I left it. When I put power on today all I got was needle in the red and the relay or whatever it is inside the box jackhammering. I pulled the batteries thinking they were to blame and hooked them up to my charger, but it says they're both fine including the load test. I put the batteries back in but there's absolutely nothing now. The needle doesn't even flicker when I put power on. I put the defective S3 back in to see if maybe I fried something in the old box but there's zero power with the S3 as well. What point of failure between the batteries and box could be to blame now at this point in the game?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Check your connections at the power stud in the battery box to the starter side, check for voltages,starting at the batteries. One bad battery can draw down both. High resistance short will do the Same.
how old are the battery's? If and when you gt it running, what voltage are you getting at the batteries when running?

 

[gcbennet]

The batteries that are in the truck now are the same ones that were in it when i purchased it nearly 3 years ago. They looked fairly new then and they tested fine so i opted not to replace them. At this point i will install a pair of new ones, and once the S3 is either fixed or replaced the issue will hopefully have been eradicated. When the new S3 died i pulled and thoroughly cleaned the power feed through stud and the shunt in the battery comparment, as well as every ground and electrical connection i could find. I repaired a few damaged wires i had discovered along the way, cleaned the neutral start switch, cannon plugs, ignition switch connectors, and changed the glow plugs. The having no power issue now has me stumped. I would assume that even if the batteries were low they would still register something on the guage. The needle doesn't even so much as flicker when i put power on. Is there perhaps a circuit breaker in the loop that might have blown?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Tere are 2 fuses,behind the instrument cluster...but they are not resettable...you need to check your voltages alone the feed path. Start at the batteries...check for voltage at the starter pos and neg studs, check at the generator. Any headlights?
if not, your completely dead and a major pos or neg disconnect.