#2 Injector line was leaking at Hydraulic Head

[gimpyrobb]

Last one:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?15872-M35-Injector-Line-Ferrules/page2&highlight=ferrule

 

[Floridianson]

Yea still bet the steel to steel was done at high pressure at the factory. No replacement.

 

[TB58]

Apparently my searching skills suck. I came up with some good info, but nothing that specific. Thank you for the added info. sounds like the ferrule is there to keep the line straight so the end of the line can seal against the bottom of the hole in the HH?

Close to the end of my drive the previous day there was about ten or 15 miles of bad road. Felt like driving on washboards. I was thinking this added vibration could have lead to the cracking of the line, or I may be grasping at things.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Sounds like it very well could have contributed to the line. I still say a new line should fix you right up.

 

[TB58]

I think so too, but I want to be absolutely sure before I start over the Rockies

 

[Warthog]

I'll be happy to ship one out. Just need an address.

 

[TB58]

Thanks for the offer warthog, but I should be able to get one here tomorrow and should be fixed up and on the road.

 

[skinnyR1]

Sounds like this was resolved.

The "ferrule" is replaceable. They are referred to as bite fittings. You need to cut off a portion of the tube though, so that the ferrule has a new place to seat. See Post #66 of my thread here;

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?116901-Mike-D-s-deuce-recovery-modification-thread/page4

I did three of the lines on my last motor, worked great and is cheap.

 

[daytonatrbo]

This is great info since one of the lines on my m109 is leaking at the HH. I haven't noticed it affecting the performance, but I do have to let the lift pump run a while before cranking if I expect it to start smoothly.

 

[TB58]

It was with out a doubt a cracked line. In the few miles I limped to the shop the line broke completely.

Getting fixed now.

 

[Floridianson]

Well good to learn something new each day. Thanks to Cranetruck for the pic. Looks like a two piece fitting that is crimped. Once on the inner and once on the outer maybe?
Now it was said you could get a new fitting and cut a 1/4'' off the line but even if you could cut the line at the fitting you are loosing 1/2'' of injector line not 1/4'' so if all the lines need to be equal would the 1/2'' make a difference. I don't know but before I did the cut thing I would look for a new /used line myself.

 

[frank8003]

Well good to learn something new each day. Thanks to Cranetruck for the pic. Looks like a two piece fitting that is crimped. Once on the inner and once on the outer maybe?
Now it was said you could get a new fitting and cut a 1/4'' off the line but even if you could cut the line at the fitting you are loosing 1/2'' of injector line not 1/4'' so if all the lines need to be equal would the 1/2'' make a difference. I don't know but before I did the cut thing I would look for a new /used line myself.

Thanks for those pictures.
Both ends of the injector lines are "special" sort of.
Here is diagram from "G"

 

[skinnyR1]

Why would line length matter? It's fluid pressure. I could understand if it was a viscous material here, but it's not. A 1/4 inch or an inch isn't going to make a difference in my opinion besides when the lines are empty. It's positive displacement right?

 

[rustystud]

Why would line length matter? It's fluid pressure. I could understand if it was a viscous material here, but it's not. A 1/4 inch or an inch isn't going to make a difference in my opinion besides when the lines are empty. It's positive displacement right?

Your right to a point. Technically fluids do not compress. In reality they do a little. If you have a closed line 4ft long and a line 2ft long and a metered amount of pressurized fluid injected into them will the end pressure be the same ? In a perfect world the answer would be yes. In reality there will be a slight loose of pressure in the longer line. Now add to the fact that at the end of the line is a metered orifice with a set spring pressure that must be overcome. Now we must look at the time factor. How long does it take the fluid to travel the different lengths of line ? Since the engine timing of a diesel corresponds with the injection and then firing of the fuel. So if it takes less time to travel the distance of the 2ft line what will happen to our engine timing ? We will get an early firing cylinder with a slightly higher charge of fuel, which in turn will cause loss of power and added stress to the engine. So the answer to your question is, if you take 1/2" of one line then you must take 1/2" off all the lines.
After thinking about this for a few minutes I reconsidered my last comment. If our lines are on average 3ft long then 1/2" is just a small percentage of that. So I don't think it will be much of a factor in the engine timing.

 

[daytonatrbo]

Well put, Rusty.

The only thing I would point out is that the metered fuel you are adding to the line does not have to travel the length of the line. It is only displacing an equal amount of fuel at the far end. However, this is somewhat double edged as the little bit of fuel squirting in one end now has to overcome the inertia of all the fuel in the tube. As you pointed out, the pressure to overcome the spring in the injector is much greater than this effect.

I also agree with your final point. Even if the tubes average 2', half an inch is only 2% different and there are likely other aspects of the engine that vary more than 2% and have a much larger impact on performance. Compression would likely be one.

 

[frank8003]

At times it is easier to search for parts with the FSN 4710-177-8648
and/or the part 11641781 (19207)
I usually end up at Part Target and eBay amazon places.

http://www.parttarget.com/4710-00-177-8650_4710001778650_11641781.html

TM says replace it
TM 9-2815-210-34P page 52
tube assembly,metal:fuel injector pump to fuel injection nozzle cylinder NO. 2

Fuel lines are old school and robust at .250 OD and .0625 ID

 

[jbayer]

At times it is easier to search for parts with the FSN 4710-177-8648
and/or the part 11641781 (19207)
I usually end up at Part Target and eBay amazon places.

http://www.parttarget.com/4710-00-177-8650_4710001778650_11641781.html

TM says replace it
TM 9-2815-210-34P page 52
tube assembly,metal:fuel injector pump to fuel injection nozzle cylinder NO. 2

Fuel lines are old school and robust at .250 OD and .0625 ID
View attachment 577532View attachment 577533

.25" OD X .062" ID = .094" wall thickness.
That does not quite sound right.

 

[jasonjc]

.25" OD X .062" ID = .094" wall thickness.
That does not quite sound right.

.250-.0625=.1875/2=.09375

 

[daytonatrbo]

Are we sure that drill bit "pin gage" is giving us an accurate ID? Is the end maybe distorted some from cutting?

 

[frank8003]

OK OK already
The dimensions are nominal at .250"OD and .0625"ID.
Measured at the end from factory (HH end) and I don't have the blueprints.
The OD runs at .250 +.002 -.000
The ID runs at .0625 +/-.001 and is chamfered both ends
The fitting was pressure installed in a machine.
I bought a #5 line to make my pop tester setup to Swagelok that I had.






And this was already posted but is pretty good too
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?15872-M35-Injector-Line-Ferrules