Picked up 6 MEP-802A gensets and will be documenting making them all runners here

[pclausen]

if you put new rings in it that is not your problem. if you left the pistons in i am pretty sure you just don't have any compression. put a very liberal amount of penetrating oil (a pint) in each cylinder with the pistons half way up and let it sit for at least a week. pull injectors and crank by hand and then with motor to clear it out some. if you have fuel at the injectors and they are new that should be ok. you will get very slight smoke with low compression and it def will not even try to start. you know, you are spending way more on these than they are worth??

I left the pistons in. So probably no compression is the issue...

 

[pclausen]

Did the fuel cutoff solenoid move the fuel rack into the full fuel position? Are you sure the injectors are indexed in the fuel rack properly? Also, it did not sound like the starter was turning over as fast as I remember it should. You know, once I had the devil of a time purging the lines on a 802. You might want to give it another try. And as much as I hate to even mention it, pull the air filter, and give it a VERY short burst of starting fluid spray. I hate the stuff, but just to see if it will fire up for a few seconds. Just to more or less calm your fears, and to prove your work. This is NOT something I would do often. But if it fires with starting fluid, it just might be a fuel delivery problem. Give M-35-toms advice a shot. Have you taken a compression test? If so, how high was it?

Yes, the fuel cutoff solenoid does move to the full open position while cranking. Injectors are indexed to the fuel rack properly. I have the 2 special tools to accomplish this as set the limits. I followed the exact same procedure as the unit I tore down all the way and had the block hot tanked.

I tried starting fluid. A very tiny squirt at first, nothing. Tried progressively larger doses. Still nothing. Looks like no compression.

 

[pclausen]

I also don't think its compression related as I can here the compression stroke very clearly in that video- try to fire it off with wd40 mist I too am not a fan of starting fluid- its meth for diesels as they become addicted quickly. Keep a large rag handy just in case it decides to run away on excessive assy lube. I have a TON of diesel knowledge but a MEP genset newbe, I think its just taking its time priming up the injectors

Hmm, maybe pull the injectors and drop in some penetrating oil as per Tom's suggestion would be the next logical step? I was very surprised that starting fluid did nothing? Maybe I was being overly cautious and should try a slightly later amount (more than a 0.5 second blast)? Or I can try the wd40 mist. I'm assuming that I should not bother pre-heating after a mist of starting fluid or wd40?

 

[pclausen]

How exactly does the staring fluid make a problem for the engine?

I mean if you can answer that simply (and I know that's not always the case).

I think the concern is that given the high compression of a diesel engine compared to a gas engine, it could potentially do some serious damage given the volatility of ether compared to slow burning diesel oil.

 

[Guyfang]

Indeed pclausen, that can happen. If you cant get it to light off with starting fluid, pull the pistons.

You only need three things to make a diesel run. Air, Fuel and Compression. I assume the air intake system is clear?

 

[JRM]

The glows are in the manifold so don't pre heat with wd or starting fluid. What I would do is, add the oil as suggested above to seal the rings then start cranking and have someone spray wd after 10 seconds of cranking while still cranking. Sounds like your rings are rusted in place. Have a way to shut off the intake air handy as sometimes they like to race up fast when they light off like this guy>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbiNndfNNKI

 

[pclausen]

Lol, that was a funny video. I'm surprised that old truck didn't throw a rod or something.

Yeah, I can see the rings being rusted in place. Remember how the bores looked when I first popped the heads


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/802A-2007-6-22-03.JPG

I think I'll just go ahead and pop the head again after draining oil and water (I learned after the last one to not fill with coolant on the first try), then pop the crank cover and undo piston #1 and have a look at the rings. Bet it won't be a pretty sight. Probably should have just done that on this unit to begin with given the condition of the cylinder walls...

 

[JRM]

Oh I hadn't seen that pict- wow were these used in Katrina or something? Wow! Lots of honeing and new rings for sure

 

[Guyfang]

Honeing and rings are still cheaper that an engine.

 

[Another Ahab]

Will the honing work effectively, even if the rust in the bore leads to some pitting and all?

 

[rustystud]

Will the honing work effectively, even if the rust in the bore leads to some pitting and all?

No it won't. What will happen is the pits will allow gasses to bypass the rings. Eventually they will wear a groove in the cylinder wall. I've seen this happen before. It takes awhile to do it, but your engine will not last near as long if done correctly. If the pits will not come out with honing then it must be bored over-size and larger pistons installed.

 

[pclausen]

Finally had some time work work on the one that wasn't making good compression. Sure enough, the rings were rusted stuck on the pistons.


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-01.jpg

So I dropped them into some small containers of diesel to soak.


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-02.JPG

Next I stripped the unit down to the block


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-03.JPG

After moving the engine to a work table, I pulled all the guts out. Plenty of rust everywhere.


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-04.JPG

I then gave both bores a good hone. There is still a little but of pitting, it is much better than before. Hopefully it will run got a good number of hours before the grooves that rustystud was talking about. I then soaked the block in degreaser and then gave it a good cleanse with the power washer, and then promptly dried it with compressed air and then sprayed it with WD40.


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-06.JPG

Did the same to the crank:


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-07.JPG

Next I cleaned up the various parts with a brush and diesel solution.


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-08.JPG

Pulled the pistons and with quite some effort, I got the rings off. They broke in many pieces, but I was anticipating that, and have oversize ones already on hand. I'll be custom fitting those to the bores.


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-09.JPG

I think I want to polish the journals on the crank and cam. There was some surface rust in some places and what not. What should I use?


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-10.JPG

Next I need to work on the lifters. I'm taking them apart one by one (so they don't get out of order) and soaking them in diesel to release the inner piston.


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-11.JPG

So pretty good progress this weekend. Hopefully I'll have some time during the week to start putting everything back together.

 

[Another Ahab]

The progress shot are great. Thanks for the details.

 

[rustystud]

Finally had some time work work on the one that wasn't making good compression. Sure enough, the rings were rusted stuck on the pistons.

View attachment 629151
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-01.jpg

So I dropped them into some small containers of diesel to soak.

View attachment 629152
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-02.JPG

Next I stripped the unit down to the block

View attachment 629153
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-03.JPG

After moving the engine to a work table, I pulled all the guts out. Plenty of rust everywhere.

View attachment 629154
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-04.JPG

I then gave both bores a good hone. There is still a little but of pitting, it is much better than before. Hopefully it will run got a good number of hours before the grooves that rustystud was talking about. I then soaked the block in degreaser and then gave it a good cleanse with the power washer, and then promptly dried it with compressed air and then sprayed it with WD40.

View attachment 629155
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-06.JPG

Did the same to the crank:

View attachment 629156
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-07.JPG

Next I cleaned up the various parts with a brush and diesel solution.

View attachment 629157
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-08.JPG

Pulled the pistons and with quite some effort, I got the rings off. They broke in many pieces, but I was anticipating that, and have oversize ones already on hand. I'll be custom fitting those to the bores.

View attachment 629158
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-09.JPG

I think I want to polish the journals on the crank and cam. There was some surface rust in some places and what not. What should I use?

View attachment 629159
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-10.JPG

Next I need to work on the lifters. I'm taking them apart one by one (so they don't get out of order) and soaking them in diesel to release the inner piston.

View attachment 629160
http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-6-19-11.JPG

So pretty good progress this weekend. Hopefully I'll have some time during the week to start putting everything back together.

Use a scotch pad or 2000 grit crocus cloth.

 

[JRM]

soaking heavy rusted items in vinegar for a few days works a miracle. makes Motorcycle fuel tanks look like.

 

[pclausen]

I picked up some scotch pad scour pads and went to town on the crank and cam. Crank came out nice, but the cam still got some serious pits in it.


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-CAM01.JPG


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-CAM02.JPG


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-CAM03.JPG


http://www.cstone.net/~dk/MEP802-CAM04.JPG

Do you guys think the lifers will just ride over the pits?

Perhaps I should consider pulling the cam (and presumably matching lifters) out of the unit with the drilled tank and broken piston?

 

[Triple Jim]

I think you need a new cam and lifters, or a used matching set as you suggested. That one will fail and put a bunch of iron filings in the engine as it does. You probably know, but if you use the ones you have in the other engine, keep the lifters and cam lobes together, rather than mixing them up.

 

[pclausen]

Thanks for confirming. That's what I figured. I'll pull from the other engine as a set and keep in the same order.

 

[jamawieb]

I agree, if you try to use them don't except longevity out of the motor. You need smooth surfaces for the moving parts.

 

[87Nassaublue]

No it won't. What will happen is the pits will allow gasses to bypass the rings. Eventually they will wear a groove in the cylinder wall. I've seen this happen before. It takes awhile to do it, but your engine will not last near as long if done correctly. If the pits will not come out with honing then it must be bored over-size and larger pistons installed.

It will also make it smoke like a coal burning steam engine. I recently had an engine that had some water in the crank case. It ran good and had good power but smoked so bad it would fill the neighborhood with white smoke in a few minutes. This was caused by one small rust pit in the cylinder. After replacing the cylinder, all is back to normal.