Electronic Parts Replacements Info for the MEP-802A

[kb3bf]

refurbishing S1

Guyfang,

you would have laughed your-know-what off had you seen me flinging springs all over the place trying to keep them in their slots.

I spent more time on my knees looking for the buggers than assembling wafers. Boy are they fast.

That was until I realized that the problem was not just with the springs but trying to hold the shorting bar in the plastic holder (which I later discovered is also gender specific ). Balancing three items that don't want to be together is no easy feat. I would have given up too if I could find S1 replacements. But I have two generators that need working master switches, so I have to find a solution to this poor contacts problem.

I may have found an un-orthodox solution that clips the spring's wings when they want to fly-away. I will hold off revealing what it is until I mount S1 back in the generator and check it for a while, and making sure there are no issues when the switch is energized.

If it works, it solves the flying spring problem, well at least maybe for me.

Here is an image of a cleaned wafer and an assembled one using the "spring taming technique".

 

[Guyfang]

Looks good!!

I will never forget the look on the face of a young soldier who was trying to help me. For the umpteenth time, the springs shot out of the wafer. I had been telling this kid that patience, patience, patience, was the key to the repair of a switch. When it at last happened, the one time too many, I screamed out of the chair, turned over the table and started to stomp on some parts. The young man looked at me, and said, "Chief, them suckers ain't gonna fly no more!" I fell over in a heap, laughing my butt off. Yeah, they ain't gonna fly anymore. When I got home, a 3-4 hour drive from K-Town to Burgkunstadt, I sat down to a shot or two of my home brew, plum schnapps. Every once in awhile I would utter, "Ain't gonna fly no more."

 

[TurboJoe]

I have played with a few Mep802 off and on when I'm not busy at work. One of the lines we sell is cam switches, from tiny little guys like S1 all the way up to 500kW voltage change switches. I already worked up a design that is an exact replacement for the S1 and S6. From terminal markings, to operation, its an existing, current manufactured commercial replacement. I just never got around to ordering them up as I know most surplus guys are fussy with using "aftermarket" parts.

I can assure you that these are metal shaft cam switches, made in Germany and will hold up just as well. Problem is I am unsure the vendor rules here, and I'm not sure if I can sell enough of them to make it worth my time to cover vendor payments here.

 

[kb3bf]

Looks good!!

I will never forget the look on the face of a young soldier who was trying to help me. For the umpteenth time, the springs shot out of the wafer. I had been telling this kid that patience, patience, patience, was the key to the repair of a switch. When it at last happened, the one time too many, I screamed out of the chair, turned over the table and started to stomp on some parts. The young man looked at me, and said, "Chief, them suckers ain't gonna fly no more!" I fell over in a heap, laughing my butt off. Yeah, they ain't gonna fly anymore. When I got home, a 3-4 hour drive from K-Town to Burgkunstadt, I sat down to a shot or two of my home brew, plum schnapps. Every once in awhile I would utter, "Ain't gonna fly no more."

...........................................................................................................................................................................
I was thinking of your plum schnapps which I love very much.

However while staying at the Air Hotel in Landstuhl during the month of March, Mike the owner of the hotel referred me to a restaurant in the middle of nowhere, where after the meal they offered a flaming "Fishergeist" a fantastic drink that I never had before and I wished I had purchased a couple bottles of. Since you frequent K-Town, have you ever heard of it?

I asked around but no one ever heard of it. Called the "Ghost of Fisher". I have been going to Ramstein for almost 40+ years now and just discovered it. I wished you had not been so far away from K-Town as I would have liked to have met you in person during the Ramstein Field tests I was involved in.

If anyone questions what this has to do with the forum, it is for calming nerves when dealing with S1 flying switch springs.

"Ain't gonna fly no more."

 

[Guyfang]

I will ask around. I have never heard of it, but 40+ years here and still learning!

 

[kb3bf]

I have played with a few Mep802 off and on when I'm not busy at work. One of the lines we sell is cam switches, from tiny little guys like S1 all the way up to 500kW voltage change switches. I already worked up a design that is an exact replacement for the S1 and S6. From terminal markings, to operation, its an existing, current manufactured commercial replacement. I just never got around to ordering them up as I know most surplus guys are fussy with using "aftermarket" parts.

I can assure you that these are metal shaft cam switches, made in Germany and will hold up just as well. Problem is I am unsure the vendor rules here, and I'm not sure if I can sell enough of them to make it worth my time to cover vendor payments here.

No question the MEP community could benefit from another source of parts like S1, S6 etc, but you are dealing with sporadic market conditions.
What is the surplus amount of switches that show up on flea-bay? Right now there are none, but there could be a bunch of them showing up when the MEP is replaced by another model next year.
Someone just offered me an S1 (75902LV) for $259, which I declined. I would rather come up with a design to replace the S1 functions if I had to. For now I am refurbishing S1, or still trying (I have not fully tested it yet). While I was looking for S1, I also found S6 for $39.
The unknown surplus stockpile (which may not even exist) could be a show stopper for someone making such an investment.
How many switches do you have to buy from your source? Has someone already tried doing this?

 

[Guyfang]

...........................................................................................................................................................................
I was thinking of your plum schnapps which I love very much.

However while staying at the Air Hotel in Landstuhl during the month of March, Mike the owner of the hotel referred me to a restaurant in the middle of nowhere, where after the meal they offered a flaming "Fishergeist" a fantastic drink that I never had before and I wished I had purchased a couple bottles of. Since you frequent K-Town, have you ever heard of it?

I asked around but no one ever heard of it. Called the "Ghost of Fisher". I have been going to Ramstein for almost 40+ years now and just discovered it. I wished you had not been so far away from K-Town as I would have liked to have met you in person during the Ramstein Field tests I was involved in.

If anyone questions what this has to do with the forum, it is for calming nerves when dealing with S1 flying switch springs.

"Ain't gonna fly no more."

Found your Fishergeist. Its for sale in the internet. Never heard of it, but yes, you can get it. I would send you a bottle, but the Post Office frowns on things like that. The last time I was in the APO, the sign said something About $10,000.00 fines for the shipping of such goods. Soooooooooooooo, we wont try that. But, the next trip over, maybe we can work something out.

 

[robertsears1]

There is a similar switch on my MX-2 steam/hot water cleaners. They were made by Bremas which I think is Italian. I actually took one apart and got it back together but can't remember how so any tips are welcome. I had been trying dielectric grease to make things stay in place better but ran out of patience before I got the second one back together. I forgot to mention that the reason for disassembly was it got where it was so hard to turn that I thought the shaft would snap. The operational switch also got that way and I was thinking here we go again when the light bulb came on. A liberal shot of WD40 in every orifice got that sucker slicked up. Robert

 

[kb3bf]

There is a similar switch on my MX-2 steam/hot water cleaners. They were made by Bremas which I think is Italian. I actually took one apart and got it back together but can't remember how so any tips are welcome. I had been trying dielectric grease to make things stay in place better but ran out of patience before I got the second one back together.
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I know your pain. It took me forever to realize I was testing the wafer backwards until I saw the coupler for the shaft gear.
I spent more time looking for flying springs than doing anything else.
I am thinking of putting my refurbished S1 aside and proceed with the mods for a new remote control circuit.
I would only consider getting the metal/ceramic replacement, but I still can't find any.
I will post info on the new mod when completed. I found some 45 degree index rotary switches and relays for the project.

 

[TurboJoe]

I am going to manufacture a few samples and try them out. I will have them in a few weeks, if these work (no technical reason they won't) then I will advertise them for sale. I had the engineering done over two years ago now, just never went the next step to build samples.

There is absolutely nothing technically difficult about these switches, variations exist in the commercial industry everywhere as seen in the post above. We (switch manufactures and distributors) have the ability to custom build them to whatever specs needed. Its just a matter of getting a channel for sales to individuals. I didn't pursue this two years ago because there was an abundance of S1 switches on the market.

 

[kb3bf]

I have refurbished both MEP S1 switches so I can now proceed and wrap up the remaining work needed.

Since at some later point in time I would like to add a remote start circuit for one of the MEPs, I began thinking of an alternative circuit that could integrate the S1 functions, without requiring S1 being installed.
If any high quality S1 replacements are available, then it is worth keeping the switch installed. I am only doing this because I can't find any, and the switches I have are old and the plastic is dry. I expect the plastic shaft to eventually break again.
(the other switch has a combination of plastic and metal, but is also old).

I will post a separate write-up for those brave enough wanting to repair or refurbish them. My switches had a combination of broken shaft, cracked wafers, corrosion and dirt. I had no choice but to take them apart and fix them, however I wish I had the option of getting one of the better metal/ceramic replacements.

For an S1 switch substitution (still only an idea), I have a three position 45 degree index rotary switch to cover the "OFF, AUX and MAIN" functions. The START and PRE-HEAT functions can be addressed with push button switches, while the high current requirements for the #3 and #7 lines are to be controlled by solid state relays.

I would like to see which control lines and generator status lines are available off the diagnostic connector.
I noticed this was discussed in a separate thread and I am still reviewing what was said.
This may allow a separate starter box to be added/removed at will.

Some of components are shown below.
I would welcome any comments especially critical ones if I am off track or missing something.

 

[Guyfang]

It sounds do-able. But if you wait long enough, you will find a new third generation S-1. I would consider it if I had no other options. Give it a chance. You will see something come up sooner of later.

 

[kb3bf]

refurbishing S1

A word of caution:
reassembling these switches for the first time can be a nightmare without proper documentation and sufficient spare parts.
It was very useful to have two S1 switches and use one for comparison. Later I will summarise some of the potential pitfalls I encountered.

S1 consists of two wafers, which I refer to a "top" and "bottom" wafer (bottom is closest to the front panel).

I found a replacement for S6, but as I previously mentioned, none for S1. It is the more critical one.
Since I had to replace S6 due to a broken shaft, it became a welcomed source of valuable parts for S1, especially the springs.

There was ample hardware corrosion in both switches, since they are not sealed. The hardware was soaked in oil for a couple days.

The next topic is "Repairing the Wafers".

 

[kb3bf]

Repairing the Wafers

The top and bottom wafers are different in two ways. The bottom wafer is symmetrical (it does not matter how it is assembled), the top is not, and the parts are different, mainly the gears and the plastic shorting bar holders.

When I opened the top wafer for the first time, i was not able to contain the springs which led to everything falling out. That's when noticed the two different plastic shorting bar holders. I was not able to observe their original positions. Somehow I also managed to mix up the two gears. When nothing seemed to check out against the Logic Table, I had to take apart the other (S1) switch, to find out what I was doing wrong. Since I had to clean it anyhow there was no major loss of time. But not having another S1 could have been a show stopper. Remember, you can't see the inside gear position, which adds to the confusion when things are not correct.

Testing the wafer is done after clamping it (to prevent it from falling apart again, and again ....) and checking it to see if it follows the truth table.

When facing the wafer's inside, one must realize it is actually the backside when assembled. This needs to be taken into account (in addition to the top and bottom wafer differences) otherwise one will go stark crazy trying to figure why nothing is working right. That's beside taming the springs, so having spares is a must.
Like Guyfang said, you need lots of patience, and he knew what he was doing. For some of us first timers it can be a frustrating experience.

I took many images during disassembly and uploaded them to my laptop which I monitored often during reassembly.
When each wafer is reassembled and tested OK, I position the gears in the AUX position, and then aligned them very carefully with the rest of the switch hardware. There is ample opportunity during this phase to loose control of one or both wafers, and if they come flying apart, the process starts all over again. You try to learn quickly not to repeat the same mistakes too many times over, so by the time I finished I felt i could do it in my sleep (well almost).
It helps to set up a mental reassembly methodology and to take frequent breaks between the reassembly phases.

I am glad the S1s are done, and my wife is thrilled to have her kitchen island back.

Good luck if you decide to work on your switch, but try to get some extra springs from a defunct one.

 

[kb3bf]

finding S1 screws when they fly away.

Here is a suggestion (below) when looking for S1 AWOL springs.
You may want to tape some powerful magnets to IROBOT's (as known as the Roomba) circumference and set it loose hunting.

 

[Guyfang]

I might shoot myself, twice, before trying this again. I used a magnetic bowl, from SNAPON to keep every part at least in one place durring reassembly. It may have flown all over during reassembly, but that's a different story.

 

[kb3bf]

It sounds do-able. But if you wait long enough, you will find a new third generation S-1. I would consider it if I had no other options. Give it a chance. You will see something come up sooner of later.

Now I can wait for an S1 replacement to show up, as the need to have two working main switches if gone for now.

 

[kb3bf]

I might shoot myself, twice, before trying this again. I used a magnetic bowl, from SNAPON to keep every part at least in one place durring reassembly. It may have flown all over during reassembly, but that's a different story.

i like the idea of the magnetic bowl to store the parts. I will tape a magnet to my plastic parts bin for the S1 switch.

 

[kb3bf]

Source for Cannon Diagnostic connector

Does anybody know a source for the Cannon Diagnostic connector?

 

[Guyfang]

5935-01-102-7124 that is the J-3 connector NSN. Type it in to your search engine and see what comes up.