M35a2 Hub Flip Tips and Lessons Learned

[firemedic355]

I got the first 2 of my hubs flipped on the Deuce today and thought I'd throw together some quick pointers and lessons learned in the process:

1. This is NOT "only a 4 hour job" like I've heard repeatedly. I'm a very competent mechanic with quite an array of tools and it's taking me about 2-2.5 hours per hub. Granted, having an extra hand may speed things up, but not by much if you're doing this thoroughly and correctly.

2. You'll need an 8 sided 3" socket for the hub nuts. I got mine from Merle's Automotive for $24 or the NAPA KD part # is 2445 according to the XM381 thread.

3. Be ready to throw away whatever clothes you're working in or wash them 3 times alone in hot water because you'll be soaked in grease and oil.

4. Have AT LEAST 4 rolls of shop towels around

5. You'll want about 2 tubes of high temp grease per hub, so 8 to do both rear axles. This is enough to repack your bearings and pack your hubs between the bearings, which after searching and reading, seems like a good idea because your bearing will still be "bathed" in grease once it's all hot and settled in there. Those huge 5 gallon bucket paint sticks are perfect for troweling the grease out of the grease tubes and into the hub while you have it off.

6. DON'T beat the studs out without having a nut on them to protect the threads! I thought the studs would be hard enough to take some well placed blows, they're not! I spent an hour reworking threads on my first hub with a tiny file.

7. I've read elsewhere that the key slot in the top of spindle is actually supposed to have a tiny square cork gasket in it to keep your grease from seeping out once it's hot and thin. Mine didn't have any in there, nor much grease left in the bearings, so this is probably true. My seal kit also didn't come with any, so I used a dab of high temp RTV on the tab of the outer seal that rides down in that spindle channel and in the channel itself. Seems sealed to me.

8. An old rim, or just the spoke face, which I had from cutting one off to turn into a fire pit, made a phenomenal stand to work on and anvil for beating the studs in and out. (You can see mine in the pic attached)

9. When tightening the 3" hub nuts back onto the spindle, tighten the inner one that's on the seal, while spinning the hub to make sure it's seating all the way. As per the XM381 post, torque the inner one to 50 lb-ft, then back it off 1/8th turn. Put the tabbed lock ring on, then torque the outer 3" nut to 100+ lb-ft. Lastly, bend down 2 tabs on the lock ring to secure the outer nut.

10. The $11.99 bearing packing cup tool from Tractor Supply isn't big enough for the thickness of the bearings, so save yourself that $12.


More info and pics to come.....

 

[98G]

Your observations match mine. It took me 4 times as long as I had anticipated.

A press is the only decent way to change that many wheelstuds....

 

[dmetalmiki]

It was a good weight lifting exercise, not too mucky in our experience, and completed in a day. As mentioned use the nuts, and a copper drift is also a useful tool.

 

[firemedic355]

Luckily, the years of seapage around the hubs kept the studs pretty oily, so driving them out wasn't bad at all, especially with that old wheel face as an anvil and with a 24oz hammer. Driving them back in was a breeze. Using that wheel face you can just drive them right on through.

 

[gimpyrobb]

That cork gasket is to keep the gear oil in the axle. If it(gear oil) gets into the hub, it will melt your grease away. Sounds like thats what happened, many will add some RTV to it to try to keep the G.O. in the axle.

Edit, why bend more than one tab? IMHO your shortening its life span by doing that.

 

[firemedic355]

That cork gasket is to keep the gear oil in the axle. If it(gear oil) gets into the hub, it will melt your grease away. Sounds like thats what happened, many will add some RTV to it to try to keep the G.O. in the axle.

Edit, why bend more than one tab? IMHO your shortening its life span by doing that.

No real need to bend 2 tabs other than to be extra sure it's not going anywhere. 2 were bent when I pulled it open, so I bent 2 again.

Good point on the oil degrading the grease. I never really thought about it in that order, just the grease seeping into the axle once it's hot and oily on its own.

 

[brianp454]

My experience was similar to yours. And if anyone does this in 4 hours they must have had everything go right, everything was in rosy shape to begin with, etc. or they did a crappy job. I also replaced all wheel cylinders while I was at it (they had bad rust pitting in them).

I would add to have lots of brake cleaner, kitty litter or other way of cleaning, a drip pan, degreaser, and that oil eater, and a pressure washer. And you should have all the seals and everything beforehand. I also pulled and re-greased the front u-joints and replaced all wheel seals everywhere. And replaced the front boots. Every part was a goopy mess when I started and everything got cleaned and done right before it went back together. All and all it took at least 3 good weather days, and many of them with a buddy. If you mess with the wheel cylinders have extras of the two sizes of copper washer gaskets, I have the part numbers in Peashooters brake line and other parts thread.

Getting the assembled drum\hub assemblies back on with a buddy goes very easy.

 

[nchittendon]

Started this job last week. I'll start my "tips" from before the axle nuts...

1) do yourself a favor and already own a 1" impact with larger airline. If you don't (like myself) go on Amazon and order a torque multiplier. Probably the most amazing tool you'll ever own. Got mine for $69 shipped. It also comes with a couple of sockets including the square budd socket. Some of my thimbles were rusted on pretty good and this saved the day over and over again.

2) for the 3" axle socket I found that Napa was only $24, and O'reilley Auto Parts was $34 but napa was 2 days out for me and O'reilley was same afternoon. Since I was dumb and forgot to order one ahead of time, I wasted a good afternoon waiting for my axle nut socket to arrive.

3) before you start this job, recon. Find a local place with a parts washer of some kind for your hubs/drums. You and your clothing will thank you later. Take the extra time to haul them to wherever and clean them up.

4) when I removed my bearings and seals I paid close attention as to the order I took them out. However, I found that none of my hubs had the cork seal so I had no recollection as to what step they went in the order. A quick phone call to a MV parts vendor friend and he had me on track again. All the neat diagrams and such that you find on this page.....print them. Have them on hand. Or memorize them. When it's 80 degrees out, your back hurts, and you're sick of fighting the old girl, you may not be thinking too clearly and have a brain fart like I did.

5) my wheel studs were VERY difficult to get seated back into the hub. Pounding on them would have caused some damage for sure. Most parts houses will rent you a ball joint press. Don't do the job with out one.

 

[TsgtB]

The cheap 12 ton HF press is worth its weight in gold for this job.
Plus, the bottle jack from it, is a nice manageable size (with a couple of 6x6 blocks that double as wheel chocks).

I do recommend some good 6 ton jack stands, I put them on a couple of 2x6 scraps to keep them from sinking in the yard.

When you pull a hub off, that has been leaking, there will be a good bit of gear oil come out with it, so when you set it down, a good flat drip pan would work well to catch the lube and not kill the yard or stain the driveway.
A cheap box of the black rubble gloves cost me 9$ at TSC. (for 100ct)

I dont see how you could use 2 tubes of grease per hub.. (?) Does packing it on the spindle between the bearings really do much? I do go pretty heavy with it but I dont do much deep water/mud.

A new set of seals will run 10+* warmer for a few miles till they wear in a bit.
I found going easy on the "pre load" seems to work better for me. And putting the wheel on without the axie, made it much easier to turn the wheel/hub to check for "drag".

Check your brake clearances while your in there.

Make sure your brake shoes are not soaked in gear oil.

Somewhere I read about the cork slot, where RTV was used but on the outside, tiny pieces of paper towel were forced into the slot (under the spindle nuts and packed to the outer seal in the key way) with another dab of RTV to keep it all in there.
I've done it, it has worked for me. ( let the RTV dry good, rest, catch your breath and clean all your greasy tools.

The cheap plastic bearing packing tool (looks like a couple of 4 inch cones on a threaded shaft) works well. Toss it in a zip lock when your done with it full of grease or it takes a lot of pumps to fill the void on these big bearings.

A cheap pressure washer and oven cleaner or degreaser to clean hubs that have had lots of dirt build up in old leaks.

If you're going for MRAP wheels/tires, dont let them scare you, they are HEAVY but if you use your head and use a flat shovel, you can mount them fairly easy.

It is "time consuming" and "labor intensive", however.... the results of doing it yourself, the preventive mx of seeing the status of your brakes and bearings is well worth the effort.

Check your differential fluid level while your under there. A very good time to just drain and refill.
And use something better than the little hand pump that only moves an ounce per pump or you'll really get a work out.

Hopefully this will give someone a little warm fuzzy.

 

[rustystud]

I dont see how you could use 2 tubes of grease per hub.. (?) Does packing it on the spindle between the bearings really do much? I do go pretty heavy with it but I dont do much deep water/mud.

Grease becomes almost liquid when hot, so packing it in allows it to be able to fully lube the bearings when running down the road. Remember, the wheel hub acts as a centrifuge and flings the grease/oil mixture outward. You need enough to lube those bearings.

 

[silverstate55]

I seem to remember that 98G & Castle Bravo had a fun time together not too long ago, flipping hubs on a Deuce somewhere in AZ.... to me it's a good lesson for buying a Harbor Freight press (especially if you use one of their coupons). I got the 20-ton press years ago and it has paid for itself many times over. Done several hub flips on Deuces with it, as well as a full wheel stud replacement on one; I also replaced all 12 ball joints on my Deuce's dogbones, it handled it with no problems.

As for old grease/crud buildup, I save old containers (like coffee cans, plastic food storage tubs, heck even old oatmeal cardboard cylinders) to hold the crud & grease...I use an old spatula from my wife's kitchen and an old putty knife to scrape the majority of the crud off, and right into the old containers.

I buy used coveralls on eBay, as well as used long-sleeve T-shirts, and use these when working on vehicles. It gets so doggone hot here for 7-8 months of the year, I wear the long-sleeve shirts to work on vehicles and then use coveralls when it gets cooler. **Be careful of the logos on some of these used T-shirts you buy; I was just looking at size/condition/price when buying mine, and frequently get stopped by someone passing by when they see the logo on one of my used work shirts: "Hey, I went to that college! When did you graduate?" and things of that nature. If you work outside in view of passers-by, you can lose a lot of work time having to explain that you just bought the shirt off eBay and couldn't give 2 cents for the logos on it. Those folks sure get disappointed to hear that....**

For washing, if clothes are heavily soiled, I soak them overnight in a 5-gallon bucket of either the degreaser of my choice (Purple Power works well for me; thinned to recommendations, 50/50 with water), then rinse in another bucket of clean water.

Afterwards, they go right into the washing machine. My wife buys boxes of Washing Soda from Walmart and this stuff works wonders! It won't get the stains out of your clothing, but it sure gets the smell of grease/oil/diesel/fuel/etc... out of them! And since I've had to tear our washer apart 3 times already for other stuff getting stuck in it (bobby pins & hair clips, jewelry, and so on, from wife's clothes pockets), there has been NO crud buildup from my dirty clothes noticeable anywhere inside the washer. This stuff really works!