Stupid Question about Highway Gears??

[DieselAddict]

Why are ring and pinion sets for these axles thousands of dollars each?

Are there any tricks to getting a set of highway gears without breaking the bank?

 

[Mullaney]

Why are ring and pinion sets for these axles thousands of dollars each?

Are there any tricks to getting a set of highway gears without breaking the bank?

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I believe it has everything to do with the Quantity of Pieces Manufactured.

Ignoring the amount of metal used, a 10 Bolt Chevy ring and pinion set is a few hundred bucks for a "stock gear ratio". Get a 4:88 or 5:13 and that number goes up by a factor of 5 or more. Then there are a lot more 18 wheeler's made than military trucks too.



There are even more that aren't manufactured with "high speed gearing" that fit our trucks.
There are even less manufactured for our trucks that have lockers.

Commentary: I was pretty surprised that I didn't see Eaton axles and differentials in the list above. I know for sure that the Freightliner Plant over in Mount Holly, NC uses (maybe used?) them in the school bus chassis that they build...

All is possible. It just takes deep pockets to make it happen sadly.
Kinda leaves me out in the rain without an umbrella

 

[Third From Texas]

Why are ring and pinion sets for these axles thousands of dollars each?

Are there any tricks to getting a set of highway gears without breaking the bank?

Don't get me started.

Corner the market, set the price.

 

[wheelspinner]

It’s just supply and demand. Period.

 

[Third From Texas]

It’s just supply and demand. Period.

Well, yes.

But when you buy a $50 chunk of scrap and flip it for $5000 there are a few other words that can apply, IMO.

Scalping, price fixing, price gouging, ripping off, wallet raping, profiteering, taking advantage of, etc.

I get capitalism being king and all, but 1000% markup is a bit "in your face suckers"

ymmv



I respect the hell out of anyone who MAKES something or provides a service for a comparable price to what can be had in the real world. But flippers are parasites to the community and the hobby in general...

 

[DieselAddict]

Well, yes.

But when you buy a $50 chunk of scrap and flip it for $5000 there are a few other words that can apply, IMO.

Scalping, price fixing, price gouging, ripping off, wallet raping, profiteering, taking advantage of, etc.

I get capitalism being king and all, but 1000% markup is a bit "in your face suckers"

ymmv



I respect the hell out of anyone who MAKES something or provides a product. Flippers are parasites to the community and the hobby in general...

View attachment 839138

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Ronmar]

That is why I freely publish alternatives when I find them, like manual CTIS controls, or converting to straight 24V, or using Toyota door handles and hot-rod hardware. Alternatives help to keep the monopolizers in check… But unfortunately there some things that just don’t have an alternative…

 

[Mullaney]

Well, yes.

But when you buy a $50 chunk of scrap and flip it for $5000 there are a few other words that can apply, IMO.

Scalping, price fixing, price gouging, ripping off, wallet raping, profiteering, taking advantage of, etc.

I get capitalism being king and all, but 1000% markup is a bit "in your face suckers"

ymmv



I respect the hell out of anyone who MAKES something or provides a service for a comparable price to what can be had in the real world. But flippers are parasites to the community and the hobby in general...

View attachment 839138

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Really hard to figure out exactly the right words in the right way, but here is some of it:

There are excellent human beings in this hobby .

• Sellers are generally in business to make a profit. Some sellers just want to recover their expenses. They will sell something, invest in another toy and do it over and over. That isn't especially bad. Something sold at a reasonable markup is good. Repeat after me: Making a Profit is GOOD.
• There are people on this site who will fall over backward to help you (me).
• There are people who flip trucks and do it well. They even impress their customers!
• There are folks who flip and hit the high spots and "buyer beware".
• The brick and mortar stores have to buy low and sell higher. Inventory on the shelf "eats" your lunch and space. The roof over the top of those parts isn't free and those repairs cost money too Gravel on the parking lot isn't free. The gate that opens and closes daily "eats" something too. Then there are the humans that inventory, sell, fix, troubleshoot, help make repair suggestions (often free by phone) all EAT BIG MONEY. There is insurance for the vehicles, insurance for the people, the Worker's Comp insurance, Liability Insurance. The employer's FICA contribution on your behalf. And what about vacation pay? LOTS of COSTS!
• Some folks do all of that and some don't
• One guy in his back yard might not have all those cost, but his or her brain power and workspace is worth something...
• Some think 15k is "the right price no matter what".
• Some will charge you 15k, fix nothing or everything...
• Others will hit the high spots, treat you fairly, and maybe their price for XX is $11k

The biggest thing I have learned is that if it smells like fresh paint but it is dripping fluid and the tires are half bald - YOU as a consumer need to take off the rose colored glasses and wise up.

Okay, off my soapbox.
Not sure that I really solved anything.
I definitely laughed at the cartoon Third From Texas and a lot of what you said is true!

Wish I had the solution. I could talk to a little fat man over in "North K-town". Maybe he has a better plan

 

[DieselAddict]

That is why I freely publish alternatives when I find them, like manual CTIS controls, or converting to straight 24V, or using Toyota door handles and hot-rod hardware. Alternatives help to keep the monopolizers in check… But unfortunately there some things that just don’t have an alternative…

That is why I posted the info for the fuel lines in another post. I'm all about making a few bucks. What I have problem with is gouging or otherwise taking advantage of a situation. JIC and AN fittings are compatible with each other and since AN is a commodity item its not expensive. Paying hundreds of dollars a 5' fuel line is in my opinion excessive. If anyone wants one and can't make it for themselves, I'll make you one and you won't feel like you got ripped off.

I'll be keeping my eye open for alternate sources for gear sets. I'm not in any hurry. What I'm not going to do is pay $4k for a couple sets of ring and pinion gears. If I find a source of gears I'll be happy to share.

Mullaney, I hear ya. I resold generators from the auctions for a few years. Each and every machine I sold was carefully looked over, repaired as necessary (usually the rubber parts replaced at a minimum), and tested before I passed it on. Not a single one came back with any kind of a problem. ZERO in 3 years. I made a reasonable profit on them and sold them knowing the people were getting a great machine. I also know that I'm not typical in that regard. My general experience is people make as much $$ as they can while expending the absolute LEAST effort they can get away with.

I recently bought a few air-over-hydro pumps for FMTVs. I'm going to rebuild as many of them as I can into good functioning condition and put them up for sale. Why? Because I see people trying to sell units in unknown working condition for almost a grand. EACH. You should get a PALLET of them in that condition for $1k. This is the stuff that really grinds my gears. Additionally - If someone has one they want rebuilt, get in touch. I'll do what I can to help.

 

[Mullaney]

That is why I posted the info for the fuel lines in another post. I'm all about making a few bucks. What I have problem with is gouging or otherwise taking advantage of a situation. JIC and AN fittings are compatible with each other and since AN is a commodity item its not expensive. Paying hundreds of dollars a 5' fuel line is in my opinion excessive. If anyone wants one and can't make it for themselves, I'll make you one and you won't feel like you got ripped off.

I'll be keeping my eye open for alternate sources for gear sets. I'm not in any hurry. What I'm not going to do is pay $4k for a couple sets of ring and pinion gears. If I find a source of gears I'll be happy to share.

Mullaney, I hear ya. I resold generators from the auctions for a few years. Each and every machine I sold was carefully looked over, repaired as necessary (usually the rubber parts replaced at a minimum), and tested before I passed it on. Not a single one came back with any kind of a problem. ZERO in 3 years. I made a reasonable profit on them and sold them knowing the people were getting a great machine. I also know that I'm not typical in that regard. My general experience is people make as much $$ as they can while expending the absolute LEAST effort they can get away with.

I recently bought a few air-over-hydro pumps for FMTVs. I'm going to rebuild as many of them as I can into good functioning condition and put them up for sale. Why? Because I see people trying to sell units in unknown working condition for almost a grand. EACH. You should get a PALLET of them in that condition for $1k. This is the stuff that really grinds my gears. Additionally - If someone has one they want rebuilt, get in touch. I'll do what I can to help.

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DieselAddict you definitely are right and you are the exception to the rule.
In my mind, you are to be commended.

It sure would be nice to have a spare AOH pump. Being able to remove and replace - then rebuild inside in the air conditioning - would be really good. Maybe a rebuilt pump and maybe a set of LMTV fuel hoses at a more reasonable prices could kick off a small business for you. With the benefits for some folks in the community...

 

[Third From Texas]

Something sold at a reasonable markup is good. Repeat after me: Making a Profit is GOOD.

Yes, but a "reasonable markup". I don't expect vendors to not make a profit and I'm well aware of overhead. But there are many who go way beyond reasonable. I Again, I'm not talking about doing any work or providing any service. Just scalping surplus at insane prices.

 

[B-Dog]

Against my better judgement, I guess I'll be the unpopular one. I don't know how to say this without looking like a complete jerk so I'll start by saying, I try and I think I'm a generous and good person
However, this is a capitalist market and if I can make a widget for $10 and sell it for $15 or $50, I'm probably going to sell it for $50. If a person is actually going to buy my widget for $50 or even $100, I don't understand how that is unethical? Nothing these parts gougers are doing is miraculous or am I missing something...? If I can make a widget and not by magic then you can probably make a widget too and if you want to sell the same thing for $10.01, then do it up! To commend @DieselAddict, if you don't like a situation, you can change it but why be salty because someone lists an item at a price that you think is too high? Instead, just don't buy it.
Let's be clear, we're talking about parts for nonsensical trucks. I would be on this bandwagon if we were talking about drinking water or medical equipment that could save lives.

Back to the topic at hand, there are custom gear manufacturers. I'd venture a guess that if someone put in the initial investment to obtain quantity pricing, they could make gears for a reasonable price. "Reasonable" meaning the maximum price one could sell gears, or lower.

 

[DieselAddict]

I'm certainly not buying at those prices. No worries there.

I won't denounce capitalism BUT I will have harsh words for faux capitalism. Small markets, closed markets, and monopolistic markets can LOOK like capitalism but not truly be capitalistic due to them not being fair and open with competition. One of the posts above had the phrase - corner the market and set your price. That right there is not capitalism. Those are a profiteers and should not be rewarded.

I'm going to continue to work the problem. I don't give up easily. I'm old so a bit of salt comes with the territory.

 

[Third From Texas]

Against my better judgement, I guess I'll be the unpopular one. I don't know how to say this without looking like a complete jerk so I'll start by saying, I try and I think I'm a generous and good person
However, this is a capitalist market and if I can make a widget for $10 and sell it for $15 or $50, I'm probably going to sell it for $50. If a person is actually going to buy my widget for $50 or even $100, I don't understand how that is unethical? Nothing these parts gougers are doing is miraculous or am I missing something...? If I can make a widget and not by magic then you can probably make a widget too and if you want to sell the same thing for $10.01, then do it up! To commend @DieselAddict, if you don't like a situation, you can change it but why be salty because someone lists an item at a price that you think is too high? Instead, just don't buy it.
Let's be clear, we're talking about parts for nonsensical trucks. I would be on this bandwagon if we were talking about drinking water or medical equipment that could save lives.

Back to the topic at hand, there are custom gear manufacturers. I'd venture a guess that if someone put in the initial investment to obtain quantity pricing, they could make gears for a reasonable price. "Reasonable" meaning the maximum price one could sell gears, or lower.

If you "make" a widget then I fully agree.

If you're buying up all the government scrap widgets for a penny, are in cahoots with others who do the same to fix the price at $100, sit on stock for years to create false rarity, etc...well, I call that a lot of things (but capitalism isn't on the top of the list).

Look we all know the difference between the auction price and what's sold on <insert_point_of_compass_here> flipper sites. I get that they have overhead, but I also can recognize a blatantly obvious scalp job (your $10 MSPR widget that you paid a penny for being sold for $100). And what's as bad as the scalpers are their shills. Anytime someone asks for a part, the most expensive sellers are typically recommended by the shills. Personally, I recommend the auction sites and the vendors who are not scamming others in the community.

ymmv

 

[TomTime]

Wow, I learned a new word today, I had to look up
“Shills”. Good to know !

…and I agree.

 

[Mullaney]

Wow, I learned a new word today, I had to look up
“Shills”. Good to know !

…and I agree.

.
I didn't report back here about "shills" but I too wanted to be SURE what that word meant!
There are some of those for sure...

 

[JD4044M]

I know I will/may need a new Air/Hydraulic Pump exchange since mine still leaks. I just un/hooked it and pump manually.

 

[JD4044M]

I put a high value on the M1078 I own seems like a real good all round truck if all goes well. I was lucky in my mind that the one I got had such low miles and little problems. Blows me away how cheap they go at the auctions??? I am so far away it is not worth it to buy a parts trucks and park it here hoping the part I need is still good on it?! Been happy with the parts I have needed and have seen some priced out of my market with shipping being the killer. Still it just may be me but a $30K truck running great like these can is well worth it. Try restoring a 1948 Power Wagon from scratch to do what one of these can!! To me $60-70K for a New Pick Up is a insane investment in my eyes? I won't sell my truck for less then $30K now as I know the truck is sound and what I have spent on little things. If I was younger I could make way more money on fires with this truck in the first year owning it. I live where it is fun to own and drive one. No real traffic or super fast over 60 MPH roads. It Greened back up after the Wildfire glad I save the Buildings!!

 

[Ronmar]

If you "make" a widget then I fully agree.

If you're buying up all the government scrap widgets for a penny, are in cahoots with others who do the same to fix the price at $100, sit on stock for years to create false rarity, etc...well, I call that a lot of things (but capitalism isn't on the top of the list).

Look we all know the difference between the auction price and what's sold on <insert_point_of_compass_here> flipper sites. I get that they have overhead, but I also can recognize a blatantly obvious scalp job (your $10 MSPR widget that you paid a penny for being sold for $100). And what's as bad as the scalpers are their shills. Anytime someone asks for a part, the most expensive sellers are typically recommended by the shills. Personally, I recommend the auction sites and the vendors who are not scamming others in the community.

ymmv

And that also shows us a big difference. If you make the widget, someone else likely can also, so there is natural competition. the original manufacturers most likley agreed to make the under contract competition and surely didn’t turn the profits the scalpers are… it is supply and demand, the problem is lining up other sources of supply…

 

[spankybear]

I have bought and had highway gears and has them installed into my LMTV... The gears where not cheap. However, I understand how the scrap market works. Anyone who complains about buying a $50.00 chunk of scrap and "flipping" it for $5000.00 really doesn't have a grasp of the scrap market. When scrap comes out of the government it is in huge lots... HUGE!!! You have to have the equipment to load and transport the scrap. You also need a place and equipment to process the scrap. This is going to be a yard of some huge facility . You are going to need permits to handle any and all hazardous materials that can come out of the scrap (axles will have oil to deal with even if drained). This will be a condition of the sale from the government. Then the labor and insurance to deal with this scrap. This all cost money. So what you failed to factor in is that even thought a chuck of scrap may cost $50.00 from the government there are a metric boat load of costs to get said scrap process.

In my case the person I bought the gears from delivered and installed them... that was 3 days of labor and he stood by his work when I had an issue. Factoring in delivery, labor to install and the cost of getting the scrap and warranty... I am happy with the result. and I am a cheap bastard...

Best thing I have done to the truck.