Flat glass windshield installation

[ramdough]

Ok, this is not an FMTV specific question, but since I spend most of my time here, I thought I would ask here.

I have some 16ga steel that I want to install a glass window into it like an old flat glass windshield might have. The glass is aiming up at 35 degrees. It will be hit with driving rain when driving the vehicle.

Anyone have experience in this so I can get some tips?

Glass will be tempered with rounded corners. Glass will be either 1/8” or 1/4” thick depending on what seals I can find. I prefer thicker glass.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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[NDT]

Easy, take your project to a glass shop, they will have the rubber locking moulding in stock and will know what size to cut the glass so it fits. If they break the glass while installing it, it’s on them. This service is not expensive.

 

[Ronmar]

I would be inclined to give it a recessed sill to set in and bond it using an adhesive. Set at the correct height, the glass face would set flush with the surrounding steel and the sealant/adhesive along the outer edge could then be shaped so that all the water would drain away. At that angle, a rubber seal is always going to hold water at the lower edge…

 

[chucky]

If your going to be behind the glass while moving forward you have to get laminated saftey glass no matter what. If you already have the whole cut in the metal go ahead and buy 3/8 locking gasket probably on amazon and buy a couple tubes of 3m winshied urethane that fit in a caulking gun. Put the urethane on the metal then put the gasket on and push it down on the lip good all the way around and let it dry a couple of days. Then either use some thick cardboard or some kind of flexible straight edged paneling and make an exact template that you have fitted into the gasket and know it fits all the way around . Dont make it too tight then get a glass place to cut you some flat windsheid glass with your template. Then stop by harbour freight and pick up a couple suction cup handles and some plastic spoons for working windsheild and a bottle of windex and keep the entire gasket soaking wet .Set the bottom of glass in the gasket first and put you some small rope down in the gasket going from say bottom left corner going up and across the top and back down the other side. When you start pushing the glass into the gasket start pulling the rope straight out to open the gasket wider as your flat hand smacking the glass into the gasket and keeping the gasket wet. You will be better off with some help and the suction cups will need to be put on the glass before you soak the glass and gasket. So you may need to shift the whole glass left or right or whatever and you just smack the glass all the way around to make sure its settled into the gasket good. Then put your locking ring into the gasket real good then let it dry in the sun a day or 2 . Then you can check for leaks you may need to use just a little more urethane in the gasket to make it watertight .

 

[tennmogger]

Suggestion, please use some punctuation. You have good ideas, but its not worth the extra time to extract that info. Thanks.

 

[ramdough]

Easy, take your project to a glass shop, they will have the rubber locking moulding in stock and will know what size to cut the glass so it fits. If they break the glass while installing it, it’s on them. This service is not expensive.

That sounds like a really nice idea. I will get a quote….. one thing to keep in mind…. I am cheap…it would really have to be inexpensive.

Thanks for the input….. I will explore this option.


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[ramdough]

I would be inclined to give it a recessed sill to set in and bond it using an adhesive. Set at the correct height, the glass face would set flush with the surrounding steel and the sealant/adhesive along the outer edge could then be shaped so that all the water would drain away. At that angle, a rubber seal is always going to hold water at the lower edge…

I thought about doing something like this. I even thought about having no recess. The glass is going to be 10’ off the ground, so I was considering just putting some stops on the bottom and slapping it up there, then “caulking” the edge with a clean bead. I also thought of painting the steel black where the glass goes so you cannot see the caulk. I figured painting the glass like the pro windshields would be risky if it peels.

What are your thoughts on flush gluing it?


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[ramdough]

If your going to be behind the glass while moving forward you have to get laminated saftey glass no matter what if you already have the whole cut in the metal go ahead and buy 3/8 locking gasket probably on amazon and buy a couple tubes of 3m winshied urethane that fit in a caulking gun put the urethane on the metal then put the gasket on and push it down on the lip good all the way around and let it dry a couple of days then either use some thick cardboard or some kind of flexible straight edged paneling and make an exact template that you have fitted into the gasket and know it fits all the way around and dont make it too tight then get a glass place to cut you some flat windsheid glass with your template and stop by harbour freight and pick up a couple suction cup handles and some plastic spoons for working windsheild gaskets get you a bottle of windex and keep the entire gasket soaking wet set the bottom of glass in the gasket first and put you some small rope down in the gasket going from say bottom left corner going up and across the top and back down the other side and when you start pushing the glass into the gasket start pulling the rope straight out to open the gasket wider as your flat hand smacking the glass into the gasket and keeping the gasket wet and you will be better off with some help and the suction cups will need to be put on the glass before you soak the glass and gasket so you may need to shift the whole glass left or right or whatever and you just smack the glass all the way around to make sure its settled into the gasket good then put your locking ring into the gasket real good then let it dry in the sun a day or 2 then you can check for leaks you may need to use just a little more urethane in the gasket to make it watertight

Thanks Chucky!

That is a wealth of information. That is exactly the step-by-step I was looking for.

Thanks again!


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[ramdough]

At the risk of hijacking my own thread…..

I am considering adding a wiper to that glass.

Anyone have experience sizing the system?

My guess is you measure from the motor hole to the center of the glass to set the arm length. Then manually sweep the arm to figure out what wiper fits. Then set the motor limits to match the glass width.

My concerns here are:

How hard is it to set the wiper limits?
How hard is it to seal the motor hole?
Is my logic above correct?

I am looking at putting the wiper motor hole centered on the glass below using this style of arm. (Size tbd).

AFI 33032A Deluxe Stainless Steel Adjustable Marine Wiper Arm for AFI 2000 and MRV Motors (12" to 17", Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NHZY4...t_i_FFQRY8WJCCMMZ4YFESJW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Then using this type of bracket:

200242 - Pantograph windshield wiper arm adapter (Wet) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QR72YV...t_i_12WF3T3KV4SMMN2PGMZB?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


With this type of kit:

Wexco 19478 Wet Kit, Wiper Arm Replacement https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G1FYAG...t_i_SRY59XRJE4QD3ZB246QE?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

And some sort of motor:

AFI 34000 MRV Heavy Duty 2-Speed Marine Wiper Motor (12-Volt, 2.5-Inch Shaft, 80-Degree Sweep) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NI1D7I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_0XVKRSZMH40QB4ZMCNXX


I probably need to check the compatibility of the parts above and search a bit more. Probably don’t need marine grade. But, my concerns above are still real. Any comments?

I plan to weld up the steel plate for the window next week, so if I am going to drill holes for a wiper…. That would be the time.

Thanks in advance!


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[Captaincarrier]

I recently replaced my windshield on my M38. My source for info came from Steele Rubber.

Got the item numbers I needed, then shopped around.

 

[chucky]

Suggestion, please use some punctuation. You have good ideas, but its not worth the extra time to extract that info. Thanks.

Im so very sorry you had to struggle through my horrible letter writing skills . I lay awake at night hoping someone like you will come along to be my very own letter writing coach and spell check . Everyone shines at something or another and letter writing just wasnt ever in my scope of feeling a need to be great at it cause ive never had to do it until i joined this website ! Im really just plain blue collar labor with a lack in higher education. That at best i just had to write names of cities and states in my log book since 1986 . So you might understand that not everyone is as smart as you and have all your skills . I feel your probably upper white collar management or have been in the past ! Im sure it tough to dumdown to read my attempts to articulate my thoughts thru a keyboard to this massive website. But most days i do try to get better but when i get exited i seem to veer off coarse while getting my thoughts across ! And i too have suggestions from time to time about what others should or shouldnt do.But my upbringing limits me from pointing out others shortcomings in a public setting . Your not the only one out of 100,000 folks on here thats positive that i suck at letter writing . But they to had some good things instilled in them as children to not feel the need to go around correcting those around you because there is always something you dont shine at. That others dont try to make an example of YOU! Im probably wrong about this as well your probably great at everything ! And my ideas arnt worth the time to have to struggle to extract them so to give you a BIG shortcut from now on when you see that green truck to the left with the word CHUCKY written under it i would just disregaurd that whole post cause like you say its just not worth it !!! THANKS !

 

[Mullaney]

Im so very sorry you had to struggle through my horrible letter writing skills . I lay awake at night hoping someone like you will come along to be my very own letter writing coach and spell check . Everyone shines at something or another and letter writing just wasnt ever in my scope of feeling a need to be great at it cause ive never had to do it until i joined this website ! Im really just plain blue collar labor with a lack in higher education. That at best i just had to write names of cities and states in my log book since 1986 . So you might understand that not everyone is as smart as you and have all your skills . I feel your probably upper white collar management or have been in the past ! Im sure it tough to dumdown to read my attempts to articulate my thoughts thru a keyboard to this massive website. But most days i do try to get better but when i get exited i seem to veer off coarse while getting my thoughts across ! And i too have suggestions from time to time about what others should or shouldnt do.But my upbringing limits me from pointing out others shortcomings in a public setting . Your not the only one out of 100,000 folks on here thats positive that i suck at letter writing . But they to had some good things instilled in them as children to not feel the need to go around correcting those around you because there is always something you dont shine at. That others dont try to make an example of YOU! Im probably wrong about this as well your probably great at everything ! And my ideas arnt worth the time to have to struggle to extract them so to give you a BIG shortcut from now on when you see that green truck to the left with the word CHUCKY written under it i would just disregaurd that whole post cause like you say its just not worth it !!! THANKS !

.
Well, I guess that just about sums it up... I am thinking that maybe the greater skill is to be able to interpret all kinds of language.

A good example is that Their are folks that say breaks when they mean brakes but we all no what they mean.
I still learn from those posts and I hope everybody else does too.

 

[Ronmar]

I thought about doing something like this. I even thought about having no recess. The glass is going to be 10’ off the ground, so I was considering just putting some stops on the bottom and slapping it up there, then “caulking” the edge with a clean bead. I also thought of painting the steel black where the glass goes so you cannot see the caulk. I figured painting the glass like the pro windshields would be risky if it peels.

What are your thoughts on flush gluing it?


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Well a single face bond is typically what I see on auto glass as the sealant typically doesn’t wrap too far around the edges of the glass in the windshield recess. For best performance I think you really want a 2 face bond. That way any applied force/vibration is working against at least one bond in shear and one bond in tension. And done like I mentioned earlier should drain cleanly.

Bonding the glass to the face of the structure at that angle may work fine structurally if enough bond surface is left, but may trap water at the top edge, so will need to be caulked. What is the structure like around the opening? Glass is heavy and its weight multiplies with Gs applied. Having a 2 axis frame around the glass will also help the surrounding edge resist flexing under load…

This is how I am planning on doing my habitat windows. I will recess a welded angle iron frame and bond the window pane into that, with perhaps a provision for some additional exterior guards. The aluminum patrol boats I used to work on had their fixed windows done this way, both on the roof and at approx 45 degrees around the top of the cabin. They lived out in the weather, were splashed daily and were daily bounced across the water without any issues…

 

[ramdough]

Well a single face bond is typically what I see on auto glass as the sealant typically doesn’t wrap too far around the edges of the glass in the windshield recess. For best performance I think you really want a 2 face bond. That way any applied force/vibration is working against at least one bond in shear and one bond in tension. And done like I mentioned earlier should drain cleanly.

Bonding the glass to the face of the structure at that angle may work fine structurally if enough bond surface is left, but may trap water at the top edge, so will need to be caulked. What is the structure like around the opening? Glass is heavy and its weight multiplies with Gs applied. Having a 2 axis frame around the glass will also help the surrounding edge resist flexing under load…

This is how I am planning on doing my habitat windows. I will recess a welded angle iron frame and bond the window pane into that, with perhaps a provision for some additional exterior guards. The aluminum patrol boats I used to work on had their fixed windows done this way, both on the roof and at approx 45 degrees around the top of the cabin. They lived out in the weather, were splashed daily and were daily bounced across the water without any issues…

I have had a few windshields replaced and what I noticed is the glass never touches or is bonded to the edges of the recess. They always shove a rubber strip in the recess gap to give the illusion that the gap is filled. I think they do that so the thermal expansion difference does not cause pressure on the glass and also as the car frame flexes.

I am seriously thinking about face gluing it, then caulk the edges to keep the water out.

I am thinking that I will paint the area where the overlap is black so you can’t really see the glue. Also, I will put edge trim on the steel so it looks nice on the inside. That will also hold a gap for the glue. I may use welding magnets (or tooling magnets) to hold the glass in alignment.


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[ramdough]

Found a video showing somewhat what I was thinking of doing. These windows are obviously different, but the edge trim and gluing are similar to what I was thinking.

I won’t have the black ceramic coating on my glass, so I will have to make sure I can glue straight to the glass. I planned to paint the metal black behind the glass so you can’t really see the adhesive.


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[ramdough]

Ok…. I am learning as I go…. Please add input or corrections.

I found out that normal windshields are painted on the edges (grit band) to protect the adhesive from UV rays, to hide the appearance of the adhesive, and the dots helps with transitioning the heat from the edges to the glass. It sounds like the dots are somewhat optional.

I also read that some people will use a black primer to perform the same purpose. For example:

3M Single Step Primer, 08682, Black Color, One-Part Urethane, UV Resistant, 30 mL/1.01 fl oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00473W5V8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_W5JTNH6A621HY4MPNYMW


That could be applied to both the metal side and painted on the glass side over the entire band. Masking would be something I would have to figure out.

Below is an adhesive I found that was used in an example glass install I found online.

3M 08609 Window-Weld Super Fast Urethane Black Cartridge - 10.5 fl oz. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FW61EW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_EM5AN0N2X840ZM0K1PT4


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[ramdough]

Ok,

More reading up on this.

The factory painted fritting is a ceramic paint that has to be baked on….. way hotter than my oven can ever reach (close to 1000 degrees).

What I am leaning towards is either a light sand blast (or etch) on the edge, adhesion promoter (optional), then black primered edges.

Alternatively, I could just hire an installer that can do the rubber molded install.

 

[Captaincarrier]

Ok,

More reading up on this.

The factory painted fritting is a ceramic paint that has to be baked on….. way hotter than my oven can ever reach (close to 1000 degrees).

What I am leaning towards is either a light sand blast (or etch) on the edge, adhesion promoter (optional), then black primered edges.

Alternatively, I could just hire an installer that can do the rubber molded install


The rubber molding is very straight forward.

And again, if I haven't mentioned it, Steele Rubber has both; good information & selections to suit your metal and glass thickness.

 

[ramdough]

I called around today. No one does flat glass installs anymore it seams. I can get the class, just no one wants to touch it.


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[Mullaney]

I called around today. No one does flat glass installs anymore it seams. I can get the class, just no one wants to touch it.


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.
Here in North Carolina there have been Binswanger Glass companies in Charlotte for many years. I bought insulated glass panels for my house in the 80's. Kinda became my default glass company - just because they always seemed to have or be willing to do what I needed done. About a year ago, I had two vehicle break-ins just acouple of months apart. A Suzuki lost the back glass. They brought the glass, vacuumed up the mess and reinstalled. An old Ford van (sorry, don't know what year) needed a drivers side door glass. They couldn't find it. Ford didn't sell it. Went to the local "pull your own part" place and removed a piece of glass. Called Binswanger again and asked if they could install my glass. No problem said the lady on the phone. She sent a guy who cleaned up the window that I supplied and installed it after vacuuming the old glass out of the bottom of the door. I remember that one cost me $80 and I was happy!

Might be worth seeing if they are in Texas...