MEP-002A, will Start, Run then dies....any suggestions?

[1FAST4]

Need access for the videos, but quickly just off the top of my head is your stopping pumping at pressure just clicking really slow?

If you click on the orangish colored link "Vid-1" it should open the video...at least it does when I click on it.

As for the Pump stopping, no, the pump is not clicking slow, it completely stops whether I have a pressure gage attached or if I let the fuel just free flow out of the pump outlet.

Let me know if you still can't see the videos and I'll have to get some help from Guyfang or another available Moderator.

 

[Scoobyshep]

If you click on the orangish colored link "Vid-1" it should open the video...at least it does when I click on it.

As for the Pump stopping, no, the pump is not clicking slow, it completely stops whether I have a pressure gage attached or if I let the fuel just free flow out of the pump outlet.

Let me know if you still can't see the videos and I'll have to get some help from Guyfang or another available Moderator.

Your videos are in your Google drive so when you click them yes you can view them however when one of us that doesn't have access to your Google drive clicks them it tells us it's restricted and needs permission to access the drive

In your test setup you need something to restrict flow to build pressure are you completely deadheading the pump?

One of two things I can see failing in this situation is something is jammed up or the coil is beginning to degrade and once it cools it starts working again

 

[rickf]

When the pump builds pressure it will stop, if it is deadheaded as your is it cannot move the fuel anywhere so it stops. This is perfectly normal for electric impulse pumps. Rotary vane pumps run all the time. If you have flow it should run forever till the batteries die. In actual use if you turn on the switch the pumps will run quickly and then slow down as pressure builds. They never stop due to the fuel bypassing the injection pump so there is always fuel moving. Bottom line, the pump is working as designed, right down to the set pressure.

 

[rickf]

When the pump builds pressure it will stop, if it is deadheaded as your is it cannot move the fuel anywhere so it stops. This is perfectly normal for electric impulse pumps. Rotary vane pumps run all the time. If you have flow it should run forever till the batteries die. In actual use if you turn on the switch the pumps will run quickly and then slow down as pressure builds. They never stop due to the fuel bypassing the injection pump so there is always fuel moving. Bottom line, the pump is working as designed, right down to the set pressure.

I saw your last post after I posted. You say it does the same thing even free flowing. Have you checked all of the outlet fittings and hose for any restrictions? I have seen rubber hoses delaminate and the flap that falls down inside blocks the line in one direction only. I have seen this in fuel lines and a lot more in brake lines. If that is all free and clear then I would look at the voltage as this is happening to be sure you do not have a loose connection somewhere that is heating up under load and loosing contact. Last but not least is the pump, if it is binding it will get pretty warm pretty quickly.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Id also look at current draw, and coil resistance (both idle and after stalling)

 

[Ray70]

When you were cleaning the pumps did you thoroughly clean all of the check ball assemblies and make sure none were sticking?
Your issue of the pump running and suddenly stopping, even with the lines open sounds to me like one of the outfeed check balls is sticking closed, essentially dead heading the line and stopping flow, which stops the plungers from clicking, as Rick mentioned.
The fact that the pump ran fine ( dry) on the bench also supports this theory because it won't dead head without being full of fuel.

 

[1FAST4]

I saw your last post after I posted. You say it does the same thing even free flowing. Have you checked all of the outlet fittings and hose for any restrictions? I have seen rubber hoses delaminate and the flap that falls down inside blocks the line in one direction only. I have seen this in fuel lines and a lot more in brake lines. If that is all free and clear then I would look at the voltage as this is happening to be sure you do not have a loose connection somewhere that is heating up under load and loosing contact. Last but not least is the pump, if it is binding it will get pretty warm pretty quickly.

All the hoses and fittings are clean and clear.
Tested pumps using 2-12v batteries in series. Voltage is good and constant.

 

[1FAST4]

Your videos are in your Google drive so when you click them yes you can view them however when one of us that doesn't have access to your Google drive clicks them it tells us it's restricted and needs permission to access the drive

Got it...Hopefully this works...Please let me know if it does.

Here are new links to the videos from my today's earlier post:

Vid-1
Vid-2
Vid-3
Vid-4

 

[Scoobyshep]

That worked.

Definitely not normal behavior.

 

[1FAST4]

When you were cleaning the pumps did you thoroughly clean all of the check ball assemblies and make sure none were sticking?
Your issue of the pump running and suddenly stopping, even with the lines open sounds to me like one of the outfeed check balls is sticking closed, essentially dead heading the line and stopping flow, which stops the plungers from clicking, as Rick mentioned.
The fact that the pump ran fine ( dry) on the bench also supports this theory because it won't dead head without being full of fuel.

Yes, I cleaned the Pump very well...Twice. Knowing their importance, I paid particular attention to the Check Ball in the bottom end of the plunger and the spring loaded one that goes in the end of the plunger spring as. The below pic is before cleaning. One thing I did notice on the ball inside the bottom plunger is that it was free floating, not spring loaded like the one that sits in the bottom of the plunger spring...is that normal? I didn't think to really compare it with the other pumps.

 

[Guyfang]

Ok, found the issue with the Aux Fuel Solenoid; I had not yet reinstalled the Day tank after cleaning, so the Aux Fuel Float was not in (connected) the Aux Fuel circuit. Once connected, the Aux pump and solenoid operated correctly...pump would push fuel when the float was down and stop when the float was raised up to the stop ring. One issue solved.

Thats why I wrote: Apply power and the E1 should pump fuel into the fuel tank, as long as its empty or S3 is closed.
But its now a solved problem. Good

And the E-Pump went back together just like this?

 

[Guyfang]

By comparing the pictures now, it looks like you put them together the right way. When you had the pump taken apart, you used compressed air to blow it out in both directions? Did you have to use force to take this one apart?

If the other pumps have EXACTLY the same parts, take one apart and swap the parts. Then test. See if its the parts 6-11 in the picture. If the pump still will not work, then it is the pump body and you need to consider buying a new pump.

 

[1FAST4]

And the E-Pump went back together just like this?

By comparing the pictures now, it looks like you put them together the right way. When you had the pump taken apart, you used compressed air to blow it out in both directions? Did you have to use force to take this one apart?

If the other pumps have EXACTLY the same parts, take one apart and swap the parts. Then test. See if its the parts 6-11 in the picture. If the pump still will not work, then it is the pump body and you need to consider buying a new pump.

Yes, the Pumps were put back together as shown in the diagram. I had gotten the same diagram from one of your other Posts.

Yes, I did blow out all pumps in both directions...and No on having to use force to take any of the pumps apart.

I will also try swapping the parts 6-10 from a correctly working pump to the non-working pump and see what happens.

 

[1FAST4]

If the other pumps have EXACTLY the same parts, take one apart and swap the parts. Then test. See if its the parts 6-11 in the picture. If the pump still will not work, then it is the pump body and you need to consider buying a new pump.

Just finished testing the pump (#1). I pulled items 6-11, shown in the pump diagram, out of one of the tested, working pumps and put them into Pump 1 then tested it...exact same them, the pump would run, prime, then stop. The pump's outlet was open and free flowing into a bucket. Seems like the pump body is the issue. I have since move this bad pump to the Aux system and move the Aux pump the Pump 1 position.

After doing this I came up with another option: I have (2) MEP-016D's, one of which was having output issues when I got it in 2013 that I haven't gotten into. I remove the pump from the 016D, which looked band new, cleaned it, tested flow and pressure all of which were great. I will now put this pump in place of the bad one that in the Aux position and put the bad pump in the parts pile. I should now be good...at least with this part of my original post.

One question I do have is the pump P/N of the 016D is one number different than that on the 002A...Any concerns?

 

[Toolslinger]

May I suggest a bit of labeling on the bad pump in the parts pile... It doesn't take long to forget why one put something that's bad in a pile of parts that may be good...

 

[Guyfang]

So what number is the 016D pump?

It may not be flow through. BUT, I would simply use it as the AUX pump. No need for flow through operation.

 

[rickf]

I think the numbers on the brackets are just that, P/N for the bracket. The pump number will be on the pump body. But, As Guy says, if it works well in the Aux position then leave it there. But also, as mentioned about the bad part be sure you mark the aux pump as what it came from so you do not go through this again in the future.

 

[1FAST4]

May I suggest a bit of labeling on the bad pump in the parts pile... It doesn't take long to forget why one put something that's bad in a pile of parts that may be good...

Already tagged it....Thanks!

 

[1FAST4]

So, today I got everything connected and put back together on the Gen Set. I put in new Wix filters (spin-on), primed all the pumps and fuel line up to the 90 just upstream of the check valve. I drew 2 1/2 gallons of fresh fuel into the day tank using the Aux Pump without issue. I then turned the Master Switch to Prime and let it run to check the flow in the Return Hose and to push out any old fuel past the check valve's upstream 90; the Return Line had small but solid stream of fuel that I had flowing into a waste bucket...I also took this time to look for any leaks and I didn't see any. I turned the Master to off and connected the Return Line to the day tank.

The anticipation was killing so I tried to start it....It' alive!!!! It fired right up, no knocking, no fluctuating RPM's and no smoke. I watched and listened to it for about 15 minutes, and it was running great BUT THEN,,,,,RPM's slowed, it started to knock and produce gray/white smoke, so I shut it down. Within about 10-15 seconds I was going to try to start it again, so I turn the Master Switch to Prime and clicking was rapid then slowed as if it hadn't been running; it's been my experience with this unit that if I shut it down and restart it relatively quickly the pump clicking is pretty slow, I assumed it was because it still has pressure built up in the system but that's just my guess. With the Master Switch still set to Prime I look at all the fuel connections and found one leak; it was at the 90 that the inlet side of the Check Valve threads into...it wasn't spraying but it was more than just a drop, drop.



Think the leak could cause it die off like it did?

I ran out of time today, so I'll fix the leak tomorrow.

 

[Guyfang]

Yes it could. Also, item 16 is a check valve. Did you soak it in what ever wonder juice you used to clean the fuel system. Its also a great place for trash to gather. Then the gen set stops, just like yours. I would take the check valve out to LOOK/CLEAN/CHECK and at the same time, get a glass jar and hold it at the end of the fuel line. Turn on the pumps and check to see if there is any trash coming out.