HP and Torque ???

[randyscycle]

I wasn't referring to the stock numbers. Seems everyone pretty much agrees on them.

I was talking about the "I turned it up to 500HP" thing. Where did those numbers come from?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Those guys were talking about their civy trucks.

 

[randyscycle]

I'm sure and not trying to give anyone a hard time, but it smacks of the old high school stuff......no facts, just arbitrary numbers......

 

[chicklin]

I'm sure and not trying to give anyone a hard time, but it smacks of the old high school stuff......no facts, just arbitrary numbers......

I've read multiple different threads on here that indicate that 200 hp is about the best you are going to get out of an LDT-465 without destroying it. That being said, I've never noticed anyone saying anything about a dyno.

 

[randyscycle]

200 seems reasonable to me for sure for a slightly modded deuce engine. Any more I'd think would take a fair amount of work beyond just turning up the fuel.

 

[m16ty]

One question I have for everyone involved here:

Has anyone found a dyno that can handle a tandem equipped truck and actually ran a deuce on it to see what it is truly doing, or are all of the numbers being spouted here just speculation? I can guess all day at the HP output of an engine, but that is all it is in the end, a guess.

Not trying to cause any problems, but some real hard evidence would be nice.

There is a place in Nashville,TN that has a "tandem" dyno for big rigs. I'm sure any major city has a place that can dyno a deuce.

It was brought up a while back on this subject that someone took their deuce to a dyno but the couldn't put it on the dyno because they had to have a tach signal wire to hook up to the machine ( all modern trucks have electronic tachs). You could fix this with a piece of magnetic tape on the front pulley and a pick-up mounted temparily to read the signal.

I've said I was going to mess with my fuel and take my deuce to Nashville and put in on the dyno to see what I've got but have never got around to it.

 

[OPCOM]

That would be interesting. It might give an idea of how much power is being consumed by the drivetrain.

I'm pretty sure my deuce is urned up enough. It gives just a little smoke on a flat at 55MPH WOT and the pyro is at 1100 and boost at 9. Turning it up this much BTW makes it very easy to overspeed even with the 6000LB permanent payload and that has to be carefully watched. I can also climb bigger hills faster, till the EGT gets up there. Then it's back to the usual slow going to keep EGT in line. My take is that turning it up only gets you the ability to temporarily have more power, not to keep at it all day. I intend to make the thing last a long time and the only way is to refrain from long term abuse. If someone is not satisfied with the LDT's continuous ratings (as in the TM), then they should put something else in there. I'd ove to have a dodge cummins and could buy a good used engine (and whatever else I ws told i'd need- like the transmission because I suspect the deuce transmission would blow up behind that motor), but having no shop to do this in, it's not worth what it would cost to put it in the diesel shop at $75 per hour and have it done.

 

[rizzo]

there used to be some graphs with HP and torque ratings in another thread. also different air filter information and alot of turbo info when Doc was trying to make a bigger turbo kit.

I don't have time to search for it now. I hope the pics are still there. they should be if they were uploaded to the SS server.

 

[Alan Morehead]

One question I have for everyone involved here:

Has anyone found a dyno that can handle a tandem equipped truck and actually ran a deuce on it to see what it is truly doing, or are all of the numbers being spouted here just speculation? I can guess all day at the HP output of an engine, but that is all it is in the end, a guess.

Not trying to cause any problems, but some real hard evidence would be nice.

Our motorcycle dyno cost $40,000. I would hate to see what a M35 dyno would cost......

 

[Alan Morehead]

I wasn't referring to the stock numbers. Seems everyone pretty much agrees on them.

I was talking about the "I turned it up to 500HP" thing. Where did those numbers come from?

I was talking about my Chevy 3500 Duramax. I can outrun a Mustang Cobra in my crewcab dually that weighs 8000 #.

 

[Alan Morehead]

I'm sure and not trying to give anyone a hard time, but it smacks of the old high school stuff......no facts, just arbitrary numbers......

I hear ya. You can imagine with me running a race shop how often I deal with this.... They also think my bikes are cheaters but won't protest my bike to find out.... I get everything out of my motorcycles.......

http://www.mmracing.biz/DSCN0662resize.jpg

 

[Alan Morehead]

Good news, bad news.........

Good news;
. All the help here got me in and out with this project. I went right to the FDC and adjusted it in about 15 minutes.

Bad news;
. After reading all the info I could find here, you guys went from 1/16 of a turn to 8 turns. I went with 4 turns. Too much for my truck. After you feel the power, it breaks your heart to turn it back..........

I took it for a ride at 4 turns. Too much smoke. I went with 2 turns out, still too much smoke. I finally stopped at 1-1 1/2 turns. A puff at a dead stop, a little smoke before the turbo hits, but very little smoke at 2000-2500 rpms. It made me cry a little after feeling what this truck is capable of....... I still grin like a mad man driving this truck....... Thanks to everyone for all the help.

 

[DavidWymore]

Ah, what the heck. Go ahead and crank it! Just keep a couple spare engines on hand! Haha!

I kinda know how you feel, what a heartbreaker eh? I had a '98 California auto dodge that was a dog. This one never ceases to amaze me.


A sidenote Re: transmissions. The Dodge NV4500 5spd is rated for 450lb/ft of torque. It will take a lot more, but if I had to guess, the deuce trans would last longer as it's probably rated for a lot more weight. The NV5600 (6 speed) might be better off. (Overdrive)

Are deuce transfer cases married or divorced? I believe Dodge and the deuce both have 1410 u-joints.

 

[randyscycle]

I hear ya. You can imagine with me running a race shop how often I deal with this....

Yup. Everyone thinks they have a gajillion HP, but so few actually know. When they see the real dyno numbers one of two things ususally happens: they either slink off quietly, or figure the dyno must be wrong.

 

[DavidWymore]

Yup. Everyone thinks they have a gajillion HP, but so few actually know. When they see the real dyno numbers one of two things ususally happens: they either slink off quietly, or figure the dyno must be wrong.

Well the mfr said the exhaust was good for 15 hp and the intake 15hp and the pulley kit 15 hp so the dyno is wrong! I can tell, it feels like more than that!

Hahaha!

Have you seen the K&N commercial where they install it on people's trucks and video them taking it for a ride and gushing about how much faster it feels? In think it's 99% how much louder it is.

 

[AMGeneral]

Ok,after reading all the posts in this thread,and having owned a Deuce for about 10 years and having totally rebuilt the present engine in it,PLUS having been a Class 8 diesel technician for about 12 years,I can offer this advice/expierence.

The Multi at best is a light/medium duty engine,well designed for it's time and designed to run on vurtually anything that will atomize and burn,and will last a long time in stock form with proper maint.

I have mine turned up some( about 3 or 4 flats) and the FDC bypassed,siginificant smoke on acceleration,cleans up at speed,BUT,I drive it senseably and sample the oil for presence of fuel dilution or wear at every service,plus keep an eye on exhaust temps.

As David said,they were designed for the engine not to have enough power to hurt the driveline without abuse or excess wear or overtaxing of the components,The engine may stand the power and may run top speed over any hill,but the drivetrain will suffer over time.

In ANY MV the problem isn't getting to speed,it's where you do the speeding and whether or not you can STOP when you need to!!

At any rate,the question of whether or not anybody has ran a deuce on a dyno...Yes,I ran mine after the engine rebuild on a chassis dyno (water) for Class 8 trucks,the results were(stock form with about 15% loss from driveline/friction) 98 hp and 230 ft/lbs torque at the rear wheels.

Just my two cents.

 

[JasonS]

Ok,after reading all the posts in this thread,and having owned a Deuce for about 10 years and having totally rebuilt the present engine in it,PLUS having been a Class 8 diesel technician for about 12 years,I can offer this advice/expierence.

The Multi at best is a light/medium duty engine,well designed for it's time and designed to run on vurtually anything that will atomize and burn,and will last a long time in stock form with proper maint.

I have mine turned up some( about 3 or 4 flats) and the FDC bypassed,siginificant smoke on acceleration,cleans up at speed,BUT,I drive it senseably and sample the oil for presence of fuel dilution or wear at every service,plus keep an eye on exhaust temps.

As David said,they were designed for the engine not to have enough power to hurt the driveline without abuse or excess wear or overtaxing of the components,The engine may stand the power and may run top speed over any hill,but the drivetrain will suffer over time.

In ANY MV the problem isn't getting to speed,it's where you do the speeding and whether or not you can STOP when you need to!!

At any rate,the question of whether or not anybody has ran a deuce on a dyno...Yes,I ran mine after the engine rebuild on a chassis dyno (water) for Class 8 trucks,the results were(stock form with about 15% loss from driveline/friction) 98 hp and 230 ft/lbs torque at the rear wheels.

Just my two cents.

Can you give any details of the engine configuration? ie turbo, stock fuel settings, etc. 15% is often touted as a typical loss in a pickup/ car drivetrain. Do you think that 15% is enough for the deuce? I have also noted in magazines/ TV that when stock vehicles don't live up to their published HP specs, that the drivetrain loss is automatically assumed to be a larger number. I have heard numbers as high as 30%. In other words, stock vehicles don't always meet published HP.

You bring up another good point. The deuce is not a very good vehicle to experience an accident in. Something that is of constant concern to me when hauling my boys around.

 

[m16ty]

Good news;
. All the help here got me in and out with this project. I went right to the FDC and adjusted it in about 15 minutes.

Bad news;
. After reading all the info I could find here, you guys went from 1/16 of a turn to 8 turns. I went with 4 turns. Too much for my truck. After you feel the power, it breaks your heart to turn it back..........

I took it for a ride at 4 turns. Too much smoke. I went with 2 turns out, still too much smoke. I finally stopped at 1-1 1/2 turns. A puff at a dead stop, a little smoke before the turbo hits, but very little smoke at 2000-2500 rpms. It made me cry a little after feeling what this truck is capable of....... I still grin like a mad man driving this truck....... Thanks to everyone for all the help.

Now that you've turned it up I would invest in a pyrometer. You can burn these engines up real fast with the fuel turned up.

 

[Alan Morehead]

Thanks for all the help. I looked at the manifold to plan a pryo day.

I see this over and over about the "hp" thing with the dyno. "HP" is relative to a specific dyno. We use the same dyno over and over to build a bike. If you switch to a different dyno, you have no reference for improvement. We have had guys tell us that "It made 150 on .........'s dyno". We know at that point to ignore them. We look for improvement and a smooth fuel delivery.

I will be using my M35 to go to Hardee's and get a bisquit and hauling Vet's in the local parades. No working future for this truck.

Thanks again, Cam

 

[AMGeneral]

Sorry about that,forgot to list my engine specs,my deuce runs a LDT465-1C engine,D turbo,stock fuel settings at the time,FDC bypassed,I was running 6 psi fuel pressure from the in tank pump,about 70 psi from the boost pump to the IP head,running the stock primary filter(reuseable) and Baldwin PF 902s for my secondary and final filters(all new at the time).

I would guess the Deuce would have about 15% loss at the wheels with about 1 1/2 % slip on the dyno.

Unless my calculations are incorrect that would put the actual hp at about 120 and the tq at 290 ft/lbs,which really does not agree with the published hp/tq numbers for the Multi.

Granted these were taken BEFORE the break in period,so these may not be accurate.