Newbie Needs Input On Upcoming Project...

[Alex400]

Here's some pics of my camper. The height to the pin from what would be level ground is 54.5". Theoretically, if I did the spring over and truly gain 5" of additional height that would put the pin at 59.5". Subtract the 14.5" height of the fifth wheel and my target bed height (without doing anything additional to raise the trailer) is 45". Probably not going to happen with 11.00-20's on the rear (tires alone are 43.1" tall) but could happen with 9.00-20's (~40" tall). Maybe for me it would be worth it to find a way to raise the trailer up a few more inches. I thought about recessing the hitch into the bed some. With 7" of clearance from trailer to pin and 14.5" from plate to bed that's 21.5" of wiggle room. If I recessed the hitch I could gain an additional 6" or so of height not needed and still have 15.5" of room from the bed to the trailer. Should be plenty given I wouldn't be off-roading with the trailer on anyway. Maybe a hinged door to cover the hole for the hitch when it's off the truck. Recessed 6" in bed would give me a target bed height of say, up to 51" without raising the trailer other than spring over-ing it. Plenty of room. Also, I discovered I have 66" of clearence from the pin to the front of the camper. So, as long as I have 60" from the center of my fifth wheel to the back corner of the bed I shouldn't have problems while turning. More incessant mathematical ramblings of a mad man to come later!

Additionally, relays and DC-DC convertor sounds like a top notch idea! That'll probably be the way I go.

Thought about dolly convertor, I drive semi for a living (when there's non-OTR work) and I couldn't imagine backing it up in a crowded campsite. Look out boys, here she comes!!!

The only thing that i would worry about jacking the trailer up like that is, to me, that trailer is sail. I would be willing to bet the wind pushes pretty good on the side of it and to mention it has to be a little top heavy. Yes you would get your pin height but the center of gravity on the trailer would be higher as well.

Cool project none the less!

 

[TBigLug]

Here's what my calculations on the bed looks like. I can mount my hitch up to 6.1' into the bed and not run into clearence problems which means mounting it 32" from the back of the bed would work great. These measurements are from the 7'x8' bed I posted up earlier as what I was looking for. If I'm off on my calculations in some way, let me know. I hate using Paint to do any kind of technical drawings. As always, drawings are not to scale.

 

[TBigLug]

Alex- That's true. Take a big sail and holding it higher only multiplies the problem. I think I might have to seriously consider recessing the hitch. The only advantage is I've sot a 10,000 lb. anchor holding my sail down. I would say I can just drive slower when the wind picks up but with a top speed downhill of 50 mph. I don't think the speed factor will effect much!

 

[Flea]

Another thing to consider -- what about trading the 5th wheel for a bumper pull? If the deuce is going to be the default tow vehicle, this might mitigate some of the engineering issues with the 5th wheel, and would save you from having to cut up the new bed. It's a lot easier to buy a large drop plate like I did with a pintle/ball combo than to try to hack up a bed and custom mount a 5th wheel.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

You'll need lockers on the rear diff for sure if you plan on pulling any farm implement.

 

[Alex400]

You'll need lockers on the rear diff for sure if you plan on pulling any farm implement.

or some kind of steering brakes!

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Steering brakes would be nice for a tight turn, but with a plow on the back of a truck like this in deep mud you'll need fully locked diffs at least in the rear where slippage is most likely to occur. I would go with all four wheels with diff lock and perhaps an after market transfer case that a locking feature as well that way you have 50/50 power to each axle and then that is completely distributed to each wheel. Then you add the chains and the weight to the truck and it will pull in the mud.

 

[Alex400]

Steering brakes would be nice for a tight turn, but with a plow on the back of a truck like this in deep mud you'll need fully locked diffs at least in the rear where slippage is most likely to occur. I would go with all four wheels with diff lock and perhaps an after market transfer case that a locking feature as well that way you have 50/50 power to each axle and then that is completely distributed to each wheel. Then you add the chains and the weight to the truck and it will pull in the mud.

I agree. a selectable locker would be nice so you could make those tighter turns even without steering brakes.

Does the deuce transfer case not split the power 50/50? I thought it would. You might look into an atlas II transfer case because they have either 2wd, 4wd, front or rear disconnect, and low 2wd. i know they use them a lot in pro puller trucks in high torque situations.

http://www.atlas-tc.com/history.html

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I agree. a selectable locker would be nice so you could make those tighter turns even without steering brakes.

Does the deuce transfer case not split the power 50/50? I thought it would. You might look into an atlas II transfer case because they have either 2wd, 4wd, front or rear disconnect, and low 2wd. i know they use them a lot in pro puller trucks in high torque situations.

http://www.atlas-tc.com/history.html

Locking diffs will not make you turn tighter, in fact it will make turning harder since the wheels will be going exactly the same speed on the outside and inside of the radius. What they will do is add to your traction.

Well a M35 transfer case does split the power 50/50 when under normal conditions. However, when you're pulling something since the transfer can and will slip the power will increase to the wheels that move leaving the wheels that are stuck not moving. Now if this can be locked up than you have power to all axles no matter the speed of the wheels this will contribute to better traction control.

 

[Alex400]

Locking diffs will not make you turn tighter, in fact it will make turning harder since the wheels will be going exactly the same speed on the outside and inside of the radius. What they will do is add to your traction.

Well a M35 transfer case does split the power 50/50 when under normal conditions. However, when you're pulling something since the transfer can and will slip the power will increase to the wheels that move leaving the wheels that are stuck not moving. Now if this can be locked up than you have power to all axles no matter the speed of the wheels this will contribute to better traction control.

A selectable locker would allow the diff to either act like a spool or an open diff.

Aren't they a direct drive geared transfer case? how could that slip?

 

[TBigLug]

Flea- I don't think I'd want to trade in for a bumper pull. This thing is sweet inside. We looked into all dofferant makes models, setups etc. and really for the money you can't beat a five'er. I don't think it will take too much extra to recess the hitch. Having a door that I can flop closed to have a completely flat bed when I'm not using my hitch are just sounding WAY TO COOL! Yes, in case you're wondering, I just finished my 4th cup of coffee and now the numbers and ideas are rambling around in my head.

Especially with Alex tossing out the idea of steering brakes! Oh man, where to go from there. I will restrain myself from starting to let my mind wander too much in that direction for now.

R-E- I definitely like the idea of lockers on the axle. I won't do much farm implement pulling, but come on, how could I resist! I'm gonna do a search for lockers topics so we don't get yelled at for discussing threads already covered...

Now time to keep mathing my way around and figure out exactly how tight to the bed I can mount the hitch and still maintain a 10 degreetilt. Hitches themselved only tilt 3" either way. I'd like to match my available tilt with the hitches, problem is I don't have all the numbers. ie. how far from the senter pivot the 3" drop measurement was takin! They always leave you hanging one number short of a complete formula.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Flea- I don't think I'd want to trade in for a bumper pull. This thing is sweet inside. We looked into all dofferant makes models, setups etc. and really for the money you can't beat a five'er. I don't think it will take too much extra to recess the hitch. I did some math and found out that with the hitch mounted 6" under the bed I've got 15.5" from the bed to the trailer. Even with the reduced clearance from sinking the hitch it would still take a 19.96 degree angle to cause the edge of the bed to run into the trailer. That and having a doorthat I can flop closed to have a completely flat bed when I'm not using my hitch are just sounding WAY TO COOL! Yes, in case you're wondering, I just finished my 4th cup of coffee and now the numbers and ideas are rambling around in my head.

Especially with Alex tossing out the idea of steering brakes! Oh man, where to go from there. I will restrain myself from starting to let my mind wander too much in that direction for now.

R-E- I definitely like the idea of lockers on the axle. I won't do much farm implement pulling, but come on, how could I resist! I'm gonna do a search for lockers topics so we don't get yelled at for discussing threads already covered...

Now time to keep mathing my way around and figure out exactly how tight to the bed I can mount the hitch and still maintain a 10 degreetilt. Hitches themselved only tilt 3" either way. I'd like to match my available tilt with the hitches, problem is I don't have all the numbers. ie. how far from the senter pivot the 3" drop measurement was takin! They always leave you hanging one number short of a complete formula.

Eaton has lockers for it that are cheap, ARB makes air lockers for the 2.5ton but they are 1 g a pop you would need two so that is 2g's on the lockers alone. The Eaton ones usually run about 500 a pop.

Hey why don't you lift the Trailer? You put the trailer on 11:00-20's as well then you won't have as many problems. Or you could make a second trailer on 11:00-20's that has a depression in it that allow for a normal ride height of the trailer. Yes, ungainly but easy and plus it would look like you were pulling some supersized load that needed a series of carriages to support the weight. It would make mouths drop and jaws hang open for sure.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Use my M35 in 6x6 as a daily driver... but I think everyone should have a 6x6 vehicle or greater...

No what about something like this arrangement.

you step down the height of the carriage between your fifth wheel on the truck and your trailer...

 

[TBigLug]

Well I reworked the numbers. I was pretty close. With the hitch mounted 6" under bed level I could tilt 20.85 degrees before I'd hit. Mounted on the bed itself I'd get 28.12 degrees of tilt. The hitch itself will pivot 25.38 to 30 degrees (depending on the 3" drop being at 7" out or 6" respectively). Looks like I wouldn't be able to max out the tilt but gives me a good idea of what could be done in a bind. Probably a mute point given I won't be dragging my 34 footer off-road anyway. I like the idea of spreading the axles a little bit and putting it on 11.00-20's though. Hm, anyone make a 20x8.00 rim with a Chevy 6 lug pattern? Would only be a 10" taller tire than the 235/85R16E's on it right now. Easy big guy, one step at a time. The possibilities though...

 

[Flea]

Axles don't need to be spread to fit 11.00's. They can even work in duals.

 

[yellobronc]

Use my M35 in 6x6 as a daily driver... but I think everyone should have a 6x6 vehicle or greater...

No what about something like this arrangement.

you step down the height of the carriage between your fifth wheel on the truck and your trailer...

 

[PaFarmer]

Big John

I have several deuces, including a bobbed deuce, so far be it from me to talk anyone out of buying one. At 6'5" and 350 pounds you really need to take one out for a drive. I am 6'6" and have to hunch over to see out the windshield. At 230 pounds there is not a lot of room between me and the steering wheel. They are a lot of fun, but they ride rough, particularly on the back 40, but not so bad down the road. My bobbed truck has a 7' bed, I cut off the frame about 6" behind the rear spring hanger. With an 8' bed and the axle as far back as you can go, the axle should only be about 1' further back than the original middle axle location. Look for someone local that will let you take a spin.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I'm 5'6.5" at best and I find the truck's windshield wiper gets in my way when I'm too close to a Stop light. I have to do duck down to see the green light. As for the rest I don't find any problems.

 

[TBigLug]

Thanks for helping me stay grounded!

Axles don't need to be spread to fit 11.00's. They can even work in duals.

I was referring to putting them on my camper! Oh yeah, Prowler on 11.00-20 XL's!

PAFarmer- Ted from over in Eaton Rapids has graciously volunteered to let me come sit in his and test the fit. I understand completely what you're talking about. I may end up needing to make a friend in the fabrication field to help me stretch the cab back and up along with making the window taller by extending the frame and making oversize glass, eventually. When I first started driving truck was in an old '68 Cabover with manual steering. That's kind of the fit I've got in my head for the deuce.

R_E- I heard mention on the Diablo build (I think, may be wrong, happened once before) about rotating or flipping the windshield wiper motor up to gain visual clearence. Must research more on this topic.

Thanks for looking out for me. I'm almost worried now my mind is in to deep to recover!

 

[TBigLug]

Are you kidding me... Are these all the parts to the air-o-matic? Man, $1,800 for a half box full of parts... Granted, it's not like I can do a better one myself (ie. build a better mouse trap) but it seems as though that's an awful lot... No wonder everybody complains about it (cost wise not function).