Understanding the cooling system in relataion to block heaters (video)

[tm america]

interesting thought on the ice in a lake . i thought it worked a little different than that .i thought the ice floats for the same reason a ship floats. this being it is a less dense solid and as it trys to force it'self down it has to displace the water since the water weighs more than the ship .it cannot displace the water so the ship or ice floats. and i also thought the reason the whole lake doesnt freeze is the same reason the earth doesnt freeze.there are frost lines on land they can vary from 0 to 6 ft down in some places .around here the frost line never goes below 42inchs.but the reason the frostlines are as they are is because the earths core is hot .it has a pretty consistant temp .where air temps on the outside of the earth vary, in nw indiana the cold can only go so far down before it is overcome by the heat from the core of the earth.water disapaits heat at a different rate than a solid so. the ice doesnt go down as far in water as it does on land.as the water turns from liquid to solid it floats as it cant displace the rest of the water in the lake or pond...

 

[Bighurt]

Ice floats because its less dense in the solid state than water is at the liquid state. Its the same molecule as in a different state of matter.

A ship floats because it displaces water, as long as the ship weighs less then the water in the space it has displaced it floats.

They are two completely different principles.

As far as the lake and ice I'm not familiar with the max ice thickness. I do know that if you add Ice to a glass of water it will not get colder than 32°F the point at which water freezes, nor will it get warmer than 32°F until all the ice has melted.

 

[tm america]

ok so i have a question about ice . why does some ice float while others dont ?and what does ice on a lake have to do with a block heater in a deuce

 

[Bighurt]

ok so i have a question about ice . why does some ice float while others dont ?

I've never seen non floating ice...

However if the ice contained material that offset the displaced weight then it would then sink, just like a rock.

 

[greenjeepster]

Interesting factoid on ice: According to the ACE 13 inches of ice will support 10 tons of weight.... I can take my deuce Ice fishing

On the block heater front: I am still looking for somebody who want a fee heater in exchange for temp tests on this.

Kats 600 watt soft plug type heater is part number 11611 and is available on Amazon for $14.68

Kats 600 watt 1" NPT (westfolk type) is part number 11602 and is available for $25.53 also on Amazon

I will purchase either for the first person who wants one and is willing to take inferred temp readings of it in action and report the results.

 

[Bighurt]

I13 inches of ice will support 10 tons of weight.... I can take my deuce Ice fishing

I won't even take my F350 on the Ice middle of winter here and we see 20+, gotta send me pics of the deuce on Ice.

As for the block heater, I'd love to run the tests, just tell me the parameters and how you want it measured. My Duece sits idle all winter as it doesn't have good batteries, springs first task...LOL

However it is in running condition, un-modified, stock configuration.

PM if your interested in it as a test bed.

If it needs to run for the tests that can be arranged.

Cheers

 

[greenjeepster]

I have been on a lake when a Snow Cat went through grooming snowmobile trails and have felt the ice give under the weight. I might take the deuce out on 20 inches or more, but no less....

Last time I took a pickup on the lake Ice fishing I took a different route back off than I took on... I hit a pocket where water had come on top of the ice and then re-froze trapping a pocket of water between two layers of ice... I hit that pocket and the truck went through the top layer and for a minute I thought I was a goner

 

[Bighurt]

I have been on a lake when a Snow Cat went through grooming snowmobile trails and have felt the ice give under the weight. I might take the deuce out on 20 inches or more, but no less....

Last time I took a pickup on the lake Ice fishing I took a different route back off than I took on... I hit a pocket where water had come on top of the ice and then re-froze trapping a pocket of water between two layers of ice... I hit that pocket and the truck went through the top layer and for a minute I thought I was a goner

It's not falling in that makes me nervous, well all see the end in due course that much is sure.

It's living with the loss of my $40K truck I'm not willing to deal with, she'll sit safe and sound on shore while I trudge out to the house. Probably why its been so many years since I've been, hard to drag a house out to your spot without a vehicle. The portable ones are nice, but I haven't got one yet. Maybe when the boys get a little older.

I'll gladly ride out to the house in your truck though!

LOL

 

[greenjeepster]

I am sure I would make it out, cold, wet, but alive.... the thing that scares me the most about it is that EPA fee... On lake Champlain it is around 1000.00 per day that the truck is in the water. Also the recovery bill belongs to the vehicle owner as well.

The biggest problem I ever had was getting the shack back off in the spring... it is easy to get out there, but once there is 3 ft of snow on the ice it makes getting it back off a challenge. The portables are the way to go but expensive for what it is.

Sent a PM on the block heaters.

 

[greenjeepster]

I will correct the video when I get my test results done and can provide objective data on these two installations...

I have looked high and low for other applications that use a heater in the water pump and so far all are gasoline vehicles about the size of a Buick skylark. I understand that application because it is a gas vehicle and easier to start in the winter and often on small vehicles the frost plugs require removal of the motor (or many many other parts) in order to reach and install a heater into the Freeze plug. Also the heaters are put in small vehicles more for having heat to the defrosters on start up than they are for easing starting in northern climates. I may have some information wrong on initial analysis but I did not make the leap from a gasoline family sedan to a multifuel military cargo truck.

Now that you are part of this thread I have a few questions if you don't mind? Have you tried a freeze plug heater in the actual freeze plug of a multifuel? I understand that the screw in type is easier, but it really is not much harder to install the freeze plug type and the freeze plugs are very accessible on these.

TM repeatedly says that heating the manifold is important and that is one reason why he put the heater in the water pump. Do you think that the manifold receives less heat from a 600 watt heater directly below it than it does from one in the water pump?

What is more important to you; efficiency or easy to install?

Lastly: Do you use the heater to make starting easier or do you believe that it saves wear and tare on the engine?

Thanks for your time: My interest and dedication to this topic is purely curiosity. If it turns out that both heaters in either location is equal I will remove myself from this debate and fix all of my posts that are contrary to your way of doing it.