planning an LDS swap

[jesusgatos]

I found an LDS (new/rebuilt, still in the crate) and I'm making plans right now to go pick it up. The LDT in Mah Deuce runs really strong, but I'm REALLY excited to swap-in a fresh LDS. I've read everything I can find about swapping the LDS into an LDT-equipped deuce, and it all looks pretty straightforward, but I've got a few questions.

First off - is there anything specific that I need to look at when I pick it up? I understand that it's a new/rebuilt engine, but I'd sure like to know that it's a runner. Not really excited about the idea of starting it up in the crate though, after it's been sitting for such a long time.

And then - I don't think the engine that I'm getting has one of the wastegate turbos on it, but I might want to add one sometime in the future, so I was thinking that I might as well use a 5-ton bellhousing and swap the starter to the passenger's-side now. Is there any downside to moving the starter over to the driver's-side? Should I expect the LDS to come with a bellhousing? That's how they're mounted in the crates, right? Guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope it's a 5-ton bellhousing.

Finally - I'm building an M109 motorhome and I'm planning on putting a lot of miles on this rig, so I've got to put a premium on reliability. What should I do to this engine before I install it? Should I tear it down and rebuild it to make sure that it was assembled right? I've heard a few horror-stories about crated engines not being properly assembled. Should I replace the head gasket with one of the newer-style ones? Anything else? Just trying to get an idea of what parts I need to order / have on-hand.

EDIT: I was thinking that I'll probably install a block heater (or two) before I install the LDS. Anything else that would be easier to do while the engine is out of the truck?

 

[jesusgatos]

I'm planning on hauling this engine back to the bay area (that's where Mah Deuce is right now), but I haven't figured out where I'll be able to do this swap. If there are any SS members within a few hours of 95037 that have space and something to lift one of these monsters in/out of a Deuce, I'd sure appreciate it.

 

[USMC6062]

I don't think you can use the flywheel/adapter housing that has the motor mounts on it from the 5 ton. I had an LDS that I sold a while back, and noticed that the motor mounts cast into the housing put the engine off center and it actually makes it lean instead of being straight up and down like a deuce. I think they may have done this for clearance of the front chunk or maybe the driveshaft.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Should have a bell on it. Get a pic and we can tell you which it is.

 

[jesusgatos]

Would I be crazy to try to haul that engine in the back of a 1-ton Dodge Ram (2001, 4WD, 2500HD, short-bed, SRW, extra-cab)? The payload rating is 3080lbs, and I understand that's just about exactly what a multifuel engine weighs in the crate). It's got the 7,500lb rear axle and 315/75/17 BFG All-Terrain (rated at 3195lbs) tires on it. I've got to drive about 1,800 miles round-trip to pick it up, so hauling a trailer would make it a lot longer trip (unless I crash & burn). What do you guys think?

 

[USMC6062]

I thought the engines weighed about 1800#, I wouldn't think the crate and all would give you another 1200#. I would haul it in the back of my truck if it was me. Your truck will handle more than 3,000# in the bed. Here's a pic of the engine mounts.

 

[jesusgatos]

I don't think you can use the flywheel/adapter housing that has the motor mounts on it from the 5 ton. I had an LDS that I sold a while back, and noticed that the motor mounts cast into the housing put the engine off center and it actually makes it lean instead of being straight up and down like a deuce. I think they may have done this for clearance of the front chunk or maybe the driveshaft.

Hmmm, I read that you've got to move the starter to the driver's-side if you use a wastegate turbo (here's a link to the thread.

Should have a bell on it. Get a pic and we can tell you which it is.

The only pictures I've got are from the GL auction, but here you go.

 

[jesusgatos]

I thought the engines weighed about 1800#, I wouldn't think the crate and all would give you another 1200#. I would haul it in the back of my truck if it was me. Your truck will handle more than 3,000# in the bed. Here's a pic of the engine mounts.

Thanks for posting that pic. I see what you mean. Everything I've read suggests that it's about a 3,000lbs package, but you know what they say about believing everything you read on the internet...

 

[Josh]

If ya dont mind me asking, About what did the LDS cost? I was thinking about doing a conversion in my truck.

 

[NDT]

You will need to use the bellhousing from your existing engine, as well as various oil suction lines required to swap the oil pan end to end. My rebuilt LDS had a valve adjustment screw come loose at 1500 miles, so I would retorque those as well as the head bolts.

 

[skidder]

I would pull the pan an ck the torque on the rods an mains an head bolts an val.s just to be on the saft side while its out of the duce just my 2 cents worth skidder

 

[gringeltaube]

.....
.......Not really excited about the idea of starting it up in the crate though, after it's been sitting for such a long time.....

Find some way to pre-oil the engine but before even attempting to turn it over I would pull the booster pump and check that it turns freely. I had one Tooele rebuilt which had those small gears completely locked in its housing, from using excessive gasket compound, and it sheared the shaft right off which caused severe damage to the IP internals!

And then - I don't think the engine that I'm getting has one of the wastegate turbos on it, but I might want to add one sometime in the future, so I was thinking that I might as well use a 5-ton bellhousing and swap the starter to the passenger's-side now. Is there any downside to moving the starter over to the driver's-side?

Been there... and wouldn't even try that again... Why not keep all your stock parts and just bolt your existing bellhousing to the LDS block? That's what everybody does, with good results so far! And believe me, you will notice the power increase anyways (regardless of what model turbo they put on!)
Read again http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/46520-will-5-ton-lds-intall-deuce-2.html, most of your Qs. were already answered there.

G.

 

[treeguy]

Am I following this correctly, Jesusgatos has a perfectly strong LDT and wants to swap it out for an LDS? Am I missing some critical piece of knowledge? I have a LDT, D trubo and it seems ok in my deuce.

 

[derby]

That engine in the can is prety close to your weight estimate. I have a JD 4440 with loader and was just able to lift it out of the bed. I think your one ton would handle it, just check your tires temp and pressure every so often. Are you going to add hydraulic assist steering?

 

[jesusgatos]

Find some way to pre-oil the engine but before even attempting to turn it over I would pull the booster pump and check that it turns freely. I had one Tooele rebuilt which had those small gears completely locked in its housing, from using excessive gasket compound, and it sheared the shaft right off which caused severe damage to the IP internals!

Thanks for the tip about pre-oiling.

Been there... and wouldn't even try that again... Why not keep all your stock parts and just bolt your existing bellhousing to the LDS block? That's what everybody does, with good results so far! And believe me, you will notice the power increase anyways (regardless of what model turbo they put on!)
Read again http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/46520-will-5-ton-lds-intall-deuce-2.html, most of your Qs. were already answered there.

G.

So you've done it, but wouldn't recommend it? Mind me asking why? It's just that, from what I understand, the wastegate turbo is the best of the bunch. I've got a brand new D-series turbo that I had Ken port for me, just kinda wanted to keep my options open in case I stumble onto a wastegate turbo.

 

[jesusgatos]

Am I following this correctly, Jesusgatos has a perfectly strong LDT and wants to swap it out for an LDS? Am I missing some critical piece of knowledge? I have a LDT, D trubo and it seems ok in my deuce.

Yup, exactly. The LDS makes a bit more power than the LDT (130hp vs. 205hp) and I want to have a spare engine sitting in a can, as sort of an insurance policy. So the LDS will be in Mah Deuce and the LDT will be safe in the can, in case I ever need it.

 

[jesusgatos]

Are you going to add hydraulic assist steering?

I'm going to use the pwersteering pump, but I'm planning on going full-hydro.

 

[gringeltaube]

JG, been there means...: tried to go your route of keeping everything that came from factory for the 5ton MF version to swap as is into a Deuce, obviously by retaining the stock 3053 tranny/PTO and radiator: =>1000 problems, no way to do this practically!
One of four 5ton LDS engines I have converted so far to put in a Deuce even came with its original old style waste-gate turbo (also a wistler!) and I don't recall having had any difficulties with the starter moved to the correct (pass.) side!

G.

 

[jesusgatos]

Gotcha. Thanks for the info G-

 

[rat4spd]

I think your one ton would handle it, just check your tires temp and pressure every so often.

I've been hauling over 3000#'s in the back of my Chevy 3/4 ton for the last four years with no ill effects....