She won't start in the cold!

[cleb]

If your getting good fuel pressure from the in tank pump, filters are good, etc, I would try adjusting the fuel screw. My first M35A2 was a -1D, and runs great. It started at ~5 degrees with a intermittent in tank pump, and probably some waste motor oil in the tank/filters. It took about 3 10 second bursts of cranking, but she caught on the 3rd go around. On the 2nd and third go at it, it was puffing a bit of smoke, and trying to fire. Not ideal, but it was cold, no ether, no block heater, no intake heater. Warmer temps you barely have to touch the button on that truck. Around 20-25 degrees you shouldn't have much of an issue.

I bought a 2nd M35A2, a -1C. It had noticeably less power, and when the weather went from 70-80 to 40-50, it became hard to start, and didn't want to run well for the first little bit. Every morning for a week or so I turned the fuel screw a 1/8th turn, until she would run and idle without touching the accelerator. The truck had almost the same amount of power as my -1D after that, and started a lot easier. That truck also idled a little rough. 370 miles at full bore on the highway cleared that up. Sitting doesn't do them well. It may not be your problem, but something to consider. Safest way to turn up the fuel is to install a pyro, and make sure it doesn't get too hot when pulling hills, etc.

 

[Lax]

Cleb,
Thanks for the info. I may try the fuel delivery screw also. I think I will check the filters (not sure how yet) then slowly turn the screw. Can you describe where the screw is and what direction I should turn it? Thank you.

 

[jwaller]

JWaller,
I have a feeling it is fuel so your filter idea may be the trick but that would be way to easy, and cheap. If I recall there are drain plugs on the tree fuel filter bases. How should I should I check. Just see if the fuel pump is sending out a real stream of fuel or should it be slowly pumped? How much fuel should I prepare for? Is there any trick to it. Just check one at a time? It would be great if this worked. I will check my flame heater too. Do they actually work? It never has since I had it installed a few years ago. What a waste of money that was. Thanks.

to check your filters just turn the battery switch on and open 1 drain at a time on each of the 3 filters. if you find anything other than clean diesel then you prob will need to change filters.

also to check the 4th filter(one for the flame heater) you can remove the line or simply loosen the line on the heater side of the filter and see how much flow you get out of it when the battery switch is on.

To check the flame heater you should remove the manifold elbow that it's mounted to and ground it to the truck. turn the battery switch on and engage the heater. you should see a large flame come out of it.

here is a topic on checking and operation of said heater.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/46295-how-does-preheater-work.html

pic is from bjorn on him testing his.

 

[Chevytruck]

What about the droop screw? i heard from a few older threads that it helped with the idle on the trucks.

(best i could find)
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/29221-droop-screw-questions.html

 

[wb1895]

Change those fuel filters!!!! All of them. Even if it has not been run much it cant hurt to try. That and changing filters is ALOT cheaper than some of the other alternatives...... just my .02

 

[TexRdnec]

this is of great interest to me.

if it's under 50 mine gives screaming fits of white smoke cloud pissiness but it has brand new fuel filters.

i must search for this screw type thingamajig. well, that or call keith_j...

 

[stumps]

this is of great interest to me.

if it's under 50 mine gives screaming fits of white smoke cloud pissiness but it has brand new fuel filters.

i must search for this screw type thingamajig. well, that or call keith_j...

Don't.

If you are putting out screaming fits of white smoke, you are not burning the fuel you are already injecting. Adding more fuel will just make your deuce not burn more fuel.

Your problem is probably low compression, or slow cranking. Your deuce should light off like it is the middle of summer when it is 50F. At 30F, it should light off with no starting aids, but it may require 30-40 seconds of cranking to get it going.

-Chuck

 

[TexRdnec]

that'd be hard to figure.

thing doesn't look like it's hardly been run at all, much less worn smooth out...

http://i37.tinypic.com/s0zhwl.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/xrfb6.jpg

 

[Keith_J]

Don't touch fuel delivery, that is not the problem!

First, do not leave the engine stop pulled, what this does is cut off the fuel completely. The diesel which lubricates this mechanism gels, preventing the control collar from moving when the engine is Arctic cold. When you push the engine stop in, the collar doesn't move as only the governor bias spring forces it down.

Do check that you have fuel at the filter bleeder with the master switch on. If you have flow, wax isn't a problem as the pumps (in tank primer, on IP booster and the IP itself) can easily pump enough to start.

And put the heatlamp on the IP, centered on the engine kill cable area. It will also heat the booster pump.

 

[Keith_J]

this is of great interest to me.

if it's under 50 mine gives screaming fits of white smoke cloud pissiness but it has brand new fuel filters.

i must search for this screw type thingamajig. well, that or call keith_j...

This must be a new issue as it was running fine last month. Could be dirt in the injectors.

Stanadyne makes a great diesel system cleaner. If not, servicing the injectors is something i can do next time I am down there. White smoke means non-burning diesel, probably only one bum injector if the idle isn't smooth. How does it run once warmed up?

 

[TexRdnec]

once warmed up it seems to run just as good as it ever has. it's never started as easy as any of the others though it doesn't seem.

there were NO secondary or final fuel filter in the truck when i got though so maybe we are looking at clogged injectors....

started it today when it was 61. flipped the acc switch and drained all the filters, pure diesel. doesn't seem to have the pressure of the only other i've messed with though. it tried to fire on the first try and on the second it fired straight away.

 

[Lax]

The droop screw may be an option but almost everyone has suggested that the FIRST thing I should do is change the fuel filters. With that overwhelming vote to change the filters that is where I will start. A few years ago I got my filters from NAPA but I don't remember the filter numbers. Anyone have any suggestions of where I can get the filters (and numbers) other then NAPA or should I just stay with NAPA.

I will change the two big ones on the driver's side of the engine and TRY to locate the one for the flame heater. Any other suggestions? I am on a quest to be able to start this monster in the dead of winter (upstate New York) on it's own. No ether, block heater or waiting for summer.

 

[stumps]

Okay guys, here is the latest. I realized that when I try to start my deuce that after cranking it for about 15- 20 seconds (even with the block heater on all night) I get a single puff of white smoke from the exhaust. And since I need to keep cranking for close to 30-40 seconds until I give up or I get someone to give it a shot of starting fluid about every 15-20 seconds I get a single puff of white smoke but nothing else. Does this sound right to you guys?

No, that doesn't sound right. I would be looking at the fuel shutoff control on this one. If it is stuck off, it could behave this way.

If you give it a shot of ether, the engine should be making quite a clattering noise as it runs off of the ether. Ether will always fire off in a diesel, even a very cold one.

Also, if you have never adjusted the valve lash on your engine, you should consider doing it. If the lash is set too tight, you might be leaking compression through the valves. The engine would seemingly run ok with a little valve leakage, but starting would be difficult.

But first, I would verify that the shutoff valve is working.

-Chuck

 

[wb1895]

dont forget the primary fuel filter on the passenger side front frame rail. This filter is located just below and in front of the generator.

the NAPA fuel filter numbers are as follows.

primary 3511
secondary 3512

dont forget to get two of the secondary filters.

 

[63sierra10]

I bought a my deuces a while back and had the same problem. I always had to start it off of ether, no matter what I did to it it just wasn't right, it would only start without ether when it was warmed up. It ended up leaking fuel from the injector lines when I took a long trip with it, at which time the injector pump finally gave up the ghost. I now have a different injector pump in it and it starts as long as I have good batteries.

 

[Lax]

I just had an old timer tell me the way to use my flame heater is to flip the switch for a few seconds. Then crank the engine while holding the switch again. That sounds different then what I believe is the excepted way of doing it. Shouldn't I only flip the switch WHILE cranking???

 

[stumps]

I just had an old timer tell me the way to use my flame heater is to flip the switch for a few seconds. Then crank the engine while holding the switch again. That sounds different then what I believe is the excepted way of doing it. Shouldn't I only flip the switch WHILE cranking???

The flame pre-heater simply injects fuel into the intake manifold, and has a spark plug to ignite it. It lights a diesel fuel fire in the intake manifold.

If you are not cranking, there is a very limited supply of air for the flame pre-heater to burn, so it will soot for a little while, and then just snuff out. After it is snuffed out, it will just squirt a mist of diesel into the manifold.... now, if you have flooded the manifold with diesel, and the engine does start, it is going to run away on the diesel from the manifold... That might not be a good thing!

Do what the placard says, use the pre-heater while cranking.

-Chuck

 

[pittdog]

Get some (Cetane) ... If @ 20 degreez use the cold start switch, hold it for a@ 30 sec... keep you're foot on the petel @ 1000 g's for couple min! ease er up slowly then let it idle @ 800 rpm's till she get's @ 160-180 temp (operating temp) !

 

[jhuey]

Also, if you have never adjusted the valve lash on your engine, you should consider doing it. If the lash is set too tight, you might be leaking compression through the valves. The engine would seemingly run ok with a little valve leakage, but starting would be difficult.

-Chuck

There has been a lot of good advise in this thread. As I was reading valve adjust kind of popped into my mind. Also fuel timing might be an issue. Filters first though.

 

[hklvette]

I have a similar problem that I'm working on with the A2 that a friend is storing here. I've looked for the flame heater filter online, but can't seem to find it anywhere. I've found the other filters from Desert Deuce, though. Does anyone know of a source for the FH filter?

edit to add:
I fixed my heater today. Opened the drains on the filters first and got good, clean, pressurized flow with the pump on. Next, checked for fuel at the booster, which was same as at the filters. Pulled the spark plug to check for spark, and noticed plenty of fuel in the intake (to the point of being soaked), so I figured fuel was not the issue. The insulator inside the spark plug was cracked all over though, allowing the spark to ground inside the case instead of at the electrode. Called around and, as expected, nobody had a replacement. Went to Tractor Supply and picked up an Autolite 3116 plug (same thread type, but shorter), and universal fit plug wires to replace the original wire since it wouldn't fit the new plug. Put the plug in without the washer and cut the plug wire to length, then cut the distributor side boot so that the large nut that held the wire in before could be reused for the same purpose. Tightened everything down, and now the intake heater works great!

Hope this helps someone in a similar situation!