Brakes / Bearings dragging?

[sandcobra164]

I've searched but to no avail.... My Deuce seems to be hard to roll in cold (below freezing) weather. When coming to a stop, it will stop itself even on a very slight downhill during the last 3 mph. It feels as though the driveline is binding up (FWIW, I just put a new tire 100% tread on the right rearmost axle, the rest are 70% or so). It runs fine down the road and will pull right up to the governor in 5th gear but it just feels like something isn't quite right. I do have an axle seal leak on the passenger side of the intermediate axle but was told that it should be fine as long as I keep the axle filled with gear oil. I plan on fixing the leak once it warms up but I'm concerned that the bearing on that leaking axle is not being lubed as it should in the gear oil. The leak hasn't stopped so it's getting some kind of lube. Any thought's. It started after putting the spare on but I don't know if it's just scrubbing or if I'm roughing up a bearing.

Joseph

 

[Billy Bobbed]

Sounds like a brake dragging.

 

[stumps]

I've searched but to no avail.... My Deuce seems to be hard to roll in cold (below freezing) weather. When coming to a stop, it will stop itself even on a very slight downhill during the last 3 mph. It feels as though the driveline is binding up (FWIW, I just put a new tire 100% tread on the right rearmost axle, the rest are 70% or so).
Joseph

You have answered your own question. If any tire on your dual rear axles is a different size from the rest, there will be continuous skidding. This is because the two differentials are locked together by the drive shaft.

This problem will continue until the offending tire wears down to the same size as the rest. You can easily tell the offending tire, it is the one that is hot, and has a blacker tread than the rest.

-Chuck

 

[clinto]

I do have an axle seal leak on the passenger side of the intermediate axle but was told that it should be fine as long as I keep the axle filled with gear oil. ...................

the bearing on that leaking axle is not being lubed as it should in the gear oil. The leak hasn't stopped so it's getting some kind of lube.

Incorrect. The person who told you this erroneously believes the deuce axle bearings are oil bath types, such as what over the road trucks use. They are not this way. They are packed in wheel bearing grease like a front wheel bearing.

When the axle seal fails, the gear oil washes out the wheel bearing grease. That's bad.

The deuce axle housing doesn't have gear oil high enough to constantly lube the axle bearings. Filling it high enough to lube the bearings would be so overfull it would constantly be forcing gear oil out past the seals.

 

[rlwm211]

Joseph;
It is most likely not tire size in my opinion. An easy way to tell is to drive on a non paved surface and if the rolling resistance goes away then you know that theory is true. If your truck still acts like you are holding the brake down then you have to move on with the diagnostic process.
Last summer I had a similiar problem. I say this not because I think I have the answer for you. Far from it. I am simply pointing out that there has to be a reason you can figure out for this symptom to occur.
I would park the truck, and block the wheels and jack up each axle one at a time so both wheels are off the ground. When you spin one side the other spins in the opposite direction.
When you spin each wheel listen and feel for brake drag. Before lowering the axle, press the brake pedal and check your free wheel again. You could have a slow to release master cylinder. If this is the case the problem will be on all of the brakes.

In reference to my problem, I found that all of my brakes were dragging and I had to rebuild my master cylinder and I found all sorts of nasty stuff in the bore of the master cylinder that were stopping the piston from returning to the released position. AdsI found, it is possible that you have a pressure release problem in your hydraulic brake system. Additionally, you could also have a brake badly out of adjustment to the tight side and this would be a constant resistance to motion but it would be isolated on one brake assembly.

While you are at it, make sure your emergency brake is releasing fully.

Do this all first when there is no air in the system. If all is well, start the truck, build the air and test for free wheeling again.

The air pack may be causing this and if you find you do have drag on all the wheels and you did the free wheel test with no air in the system and add air and have a problem that is a sign that the airpack has a problem.

Remember, this in not rocket science and there are only a few key components to check out. Be careful and thorough.

While I am thinking of it, make sure your master cylinder has between 1/16th and 1/8th inch free play between the brake pedal plunger that extends from the brake lever assembly to the master cylinder to the piston in the master cylinder. If there is no freeplay, or worse yet, there is a slight compression of the piston you will have found a potential source of the problem.
If you have any questions regarding specific systems of the truck ask away and I am sure everyone who can will be happy to offer whatever advice and knowledge they can

Hope this helps

RL

 

[Banshee365]

Why not just drive the truck for a few miles then get out and feel the hubs. Are any warmer/hotter than the others? That will show you a dragging brake or really bad bearing. I'd say it's a brake of some sort, whether wheel or parking, if your truck is coming to a stop down a hill... Most likely a dragging wheel brake because the parking brake is great at holding the truck stopped but sucks at stopping it when it's rolling, due to the mechanical advantage.

 

[Marlboro]

My truck recently developed a noise that i couldn't pinpoint, anytime i heard it i'd pull over and feel all backing plates and hubs but they all felt normal. About two week ago i heard it about 1 mile after leaving my yard , pulled over and the drivers side brake drum was roasting... I figured i broke a return spring on the brake. I got it back home and started to pull it apart, soon as i pulled the drive flange the outter spindle nut fell out... seems the wheel bearing was so loose that the drum was running on the shoes and heating up. The bearings were still useable so i repacked and put it back together, For the heck of it i pulled the passeger drive flange and the bearing cage was no joke in a ball crunched inside the flange! Every third roller is sideways! So i have all parts on order for a total front axle rebuild. You may have a similar problem, Or possibly the cold weathers making the oils super thick and giving you resistance

 

[sandcobra164]

The leaking hub is the coldest one on the truck oddly enough. I will feel the drums after my next drive and see what they feel like.

 

[jwaller]

The leaking hub is the coldest one on the truck oddly enough. I will feel the drums after my next drive and see what they feel like.

do you get any smell of a dragging brake? you will normally smell a brake that is dragging. heck it might be quicker to just jack up the wheels and turn them by hand.

 

[stumps]

... It started after putting the spare on but I don't know if it's just scrubbing or if I'm roughing up a bearing.

Did I miss something that everyone else got?

Sandcobra's problems started right after he added a brand new 100% tire to the seven 70% tires on the rear, right?

A really quick way to find out if it is tire scuffing, is to remove the new tire and run with the remaining 7 old tires. If the problem goes away, you have your answer.

-Chuck

 

[Westex]

I agree with stumps on principle, and would follow that advice first. But the part about the truck not going down a slight downhill incline makes me wonder if you may have a binding effect in the drivetrain. Search this site for 'windup' if the spare tire removal does not resolve the issue. You may have a bind in the drivetrain if you have a sprag transfer case.

 

[stumps]

The only reason I mention it is if I put my 4WD pickup truck in 4WD on the pavement, it too will stop rolling at slow speeds and slight inclines. And one can definitely feel the power train winding up, as described by the OP.

Differing tire sizes in a pair of differentials that are locked together will cause a major amount of friction as the larger, slower rotating tire skids trying to keep up with the smaller, faster rotating tires.

-Chuck

 

[Billy Bobbed]

I dont see how a tire makes a differance on a open carrier.As long as it is not in four wheel drive.When I got my truck it had all different tread ,95 to 20 percent tread.I had no problem at all.

 

[nk14zp]

Billy Bobbed the back of a 6x6 m35a2 is in 4x4 all the time.

 

[Billy Bobbed]

But its a open carrier in both rear ends.

 

[Billy Bobbed]

Billy Bobbed the back of a 6x6 m35a2 is in 4x4 all the time.

Your right I forgot about the driveshaft in the middle.

 

[sandcobra164]

Well, I tore down the leaking axle side and Stumps is the winner. The bearings still had a small amount of grease left and nothing looked blued or scored as far as the bearings/races/axle. I guess I got lucky on that end of it. It does appear my leak was caused by PVT Joe Snuffy beating on the metal part of the outer axle seal to get it to "seat" which would normally occur by tightening the spindle nut. Out of curiosity, the hub was locked down with spindle nut, locking ring, and then another spindle nut serving as a locking nut. Is this normal or did someone reinvent the wheel on this hub?

 

[gringeltaube]

.................Out of curiosity, the hub was locked down with spindle nut, locking ring, and then another spindle nut serving as a locking nut. Is this normal or did someone reinvent the wheel on this hub?

That IS normal!

Now my Q. (also out of curiosity....): why do people ignore TMs......
That is NOT normal, for some of us at least...

G.

 

[sandcobra164]

You're correct gringeltaube, I just checked over BFR's pic by pic writeup. My background is in working on light automotive applications. Normally they just use a locking washer and sometimes a cotter pin in conjunction with the locking washer. I have searched around the TM's some but most seem to bypass the "simple" job of pulling the brake drums / hubs and just list that as a step rather than detail out the process. I'm sure I'm looking in the wrong area in the TM's as I've not found it in there yet. I'm new to working on heavier equipment but I'm learning. It is amazingly simple but the parts are 3 times heavier.

 

[gringeltaube]

OK, it may help you and others to also check the -P manuals often; even if illustrations are mostly very rough the relative position and description of part#s usually "takes you there"....
In this case: TM 9-2320-209-34P, fig. 86 or TM 9-2320-361-34P, fig. 110

G.