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Legalities of WMO in Mass.

Sumoman

New member
450
5
0
Location
KY.. Nuff said
Actually i would be more worried about the EPA crawling up my ass over the extra 55 gal fuel tank. Techincally you would be transporting more than 50 gal of hazardous material. No haz mat lic = big ticket :-( Not that it s gonna stop me from bringing more waste fuel along for long roadtrips, just don't think i would fab something to stay there all the time.
Well then the fuel tanks would be better, then you are simply transporting fuel. They are in back and more then likely nobody will question it. At his point I would not worry, over the next decade we will see any number of vehicles running on different fuels.
 

Verkstad

Member
88
1
8
Location
Idaho panhandle
Maybe if you tank gets 'dipped' , Dont jabber on about how you are burning wasteoil,
Act all shocked.
"OMG ! what the #### is that black sludgey crap in my fueltank ??".
For good measure, curse the last place you re-fueled... And act surprised that the motor's still working.
The inspector's likely gobsmacked and think they've done you a favor by alerting you to a impending fuel system disaster.
They are only looking for non-taxed redfuel, They are probably not even aware your motor can run on other oils.
(BTW, I don't know how many times I paid fuel prices for a good dose of water in my machines...)
Jakob.
 

Wrench Wench

New member
261
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Location
Indiana
I'd think that though a multi-fuel CAN run on straight, raw WMO, you'd rather at least run it through a filter first to remove all the solids it picked up from the last engine it ran through.

As far as uses for WMO, there's one application I'm wondering about...
Wood Doctor - Outdoor Wood Furnaces - Installations
The combustion chamber is essentially just a cabinet lined with refactory brick. The steam heat pick up pipes are in the top. There's a means of introducing air at a controlled rate, an exhaust shaft, and a door for adding logs.

Now, to extend the supply of firewood, and to utilize an otherwise waste product, what would it take to plumb in a sort of sprinkler system from Hell? One, two, four, etc discharge heads at the end of a bifurcating tubing structure capable of withstanding the highest temps the furnace could produce. Have a pressurized WMO feed controlled by a solenoid valve, essentially EFI, if it were designed by a mental defective. Slaved to the same system that throttles air intake, it would just give a short burst of WMO through already heated pipes right into the center of the combustion chamber at calculated intervals.

I wouldn't think a constant feed would be a good idea. I'd imagine unburned oil seeping through seams in the refactory brick and pooling in the bottom where it would conduct heat to places the heat ought not go and damage the furnace. Just flashes to coat the white hot coals and insure a complete combustion.

Since it's just a basic wood furnace, there's no fancy-schmancy octane sensors or MAF... well, there may be a MAF. I dunno, but at long as the furnace has enough air to combust whatever it has for fuel, subject to its occupant-set thermostat, it's happy. Whatever energy is liberated from the WMO extends the time until I'd have to trek out with the wheelbarrow and bring in another load of cord wood. I'd also plan to burn all manner of paper trash in this thing.

As long as the combustion chamber is kept hot enough prior and subsequent to the introduction of the waste paper, it should be a fine, clean burn. Minimal soot, and a near straight shot, five stories up and out the chimney. Has anybody heard of a product called a "Super Chimney"? Supposed to be a square metal duct on the outside, round metal duct on the inside, and in between a dense fiberglas matrix. Only needs 2" to combustibles.

As to having multiple fuel tanks that are switchable, I'd think the DOT cops would have seen it all by now and would be wise to that. I read a story about one crooked trucker who had rigged his truck with an "active" suspension so that it would "lift" the axles as he rolled over the scales, so he routinely weighed in as half what he actually was. He also had a stolen EZ-Pass. Just took one DOT cop to pull him over and that subterfuge got his but thrown in jail. I wouldn't think a trick fuel tank would be a challenge to detect.
 

M725

Member
245
1
18
Location
Ellicott City Maryland
The argument is one for the courts but here is how I look at it. WMO is used freely and without taxes by oil change companies to heat their stores in the winter.. so the only difference is you are using it for power generation. If they can tax garbage being used for power I would be surprised. I can run a gasser on wood.. how can they tax something I can pick off the side of the road.

It is like KY, there is coal everywhere, can pick it up off the road.. how can you tax that? No WMO, if it is being taxed, is something that is happening because we let it and someone simply has to put out here on SS that they are going to court, maybe we can start a lawyer fund to help you battle it. We have a great excuse, we are mostly running MULTI-fuel, they were built to run this crap.. this is not some red neck mod this is solid tech (40 years old but whos counting)

I for one will have a good supply (from the city I work for) and will keep it on hand stored for personal use (55 gallon drums a plenty), but since I have a historic vehicle tag I am bypassing many of the issues you face running a commercial tag. Of course my fuels will be for parades, rallys and the coming Zombie invasion and we all know zombies do not care if the truck running them over is running WMO, WVO, Wood gas, or fresh diesel:twisted:
It comes down to if the fuel is used to power your truck to go down the paved road. You are going to paid fuel tax for the maintaince of that road. There is no road tax to heat your home or drive around the farm (off-road use) and really you shouldn't have to pay that tax for your lawn mower. ( that is you can find off road gas)
 

wellesleyhighway

New member
32
1
0
Location
wellesley, massachusetts
OK, thanks alot guys. You both have some good idea there. If you hear anything let me know Beastmaster. I may just ask the next DOT I see as well. Thanks!

Has anyone had issues with the new low sulfur diesel and water condensation issues in their tanks? No problems yet with the MV's we have, but, we've replaced a couple of fuel tanks on some trucks along with installing a poly lined tank on a Backhoe
 

fabiodriven

New member
109
0
0
Location
East Bridgewater, Mass
I'd think that though a multi-fuel CAN run on straight, raw WMO, you'd rather at least run it through a filter first to remove all the solids it picked up from the last engine it ran through.

As far as uses for WMO, there's one application I'm wondering about...
Wood Doctor - Outdoor Wood Furnaces - Installations
The combustion chamber is essentially just a cabinet lined with refactory brick. The steam heat pick up pipes are in the top. There's a means of introducing air at a controlled rate, an exhaust shaft, and a door for adding logs.

Now, to extend the supply of firewood, and to utilize an otherwise waste product, what would it take to plumb in a sort of sprinkler system from Hell? One, two, four, etc discharge heads at the end of a bifurcating tubing structure capable of withstanding the highest temps the furnace could produce. Have a pressurized WMO feed controlled by a solenoid valve, essentially EFI, if it were designed by a mental defective. Slaved to the same system that throttles air intake, it would just give a short burst of WMO through already heated pipes right into the center of the combustion chamber at calculated intervals.

I wouldn't think a constant feed would be a good idea. I'd imagine unburned oil seeping through seams in the refactory brick and pooling in the bottom where it would conduct heat to places the heat ought not go and damage the furnace. Just flashes to coat the white hot coals and insure a complete combustion.

Since it's just a basic wood furnace, there's no fancy-schmancy octane sensors or MAF... well, there may be a MAF. I dunno, but at long as the furnace has enough air to combust whatever it has for fuel, subject to its occupant-set thermostat, it's happy. Whatever energy is liberated from the WMO extends the time until I'd have to trek out with the wheelbarrow and bring in another load of cord wood. I'd also plan to burn all manner of paper trash in this thing.

As long as the combustion chamber is kept hot enough prior and subsequent to the introduction of the waste paper, it should be a fine, clean burn. Minimal soot, and a near straight shot, five stories up and out the chimney. Has anybody heard of a product called a "Super Chimney"? Supposed to be a square metal duct on the outside, round metal duct on the inside, and in between a dense fiberglas matrix. Only needs 2" to combustibles.

As to having multiple fuel tanks that are switchable, I'd think the DOT cops would have seen it all by now and would be wise to that. I read a story about one crooked trucker who had rigged his truck with an "active" suspension so that it would "lift" the axles as he rolled over the scales, so he routinely weighed in as half what he actually was. He also had a stolen EZ-Pass. Just took one DOT cop to pull him over and that subterfuge got his but thrown in jail. I wouldn't think a trick fuel tank would be a challenge to detect.
Holy crap, what planet are you from?

It's already been established that you can run a deuce on %100 WMO and that it must be filtered first, that's not the point of this thread.

Wood furnaces, who really cares?

Lifting axles to beat scales? Ummm, I'm pretty sure whether you lift the axles or not, the truck is still going to weigh the same...
 

fabiodriven

New member
109
0
0
Location
East Bridgewater, Mass
Well, I just got had a LENGTHLY phone call with the IRS. I called and talked to a guy wabout running WMO in my truck. He knew what a deuce is and sounded impressed that I would run it on WMO. He searched, and searched, and searched some more, but he couldn't find any reason why I should pay taxes on a fuel that I am getting for free. He even looked to see if I should get a credit for what I am doing! I really wasn't looking for him to find me a credit, but WTF?

I asked him if there's anything I can print out to show to any IRS or DOT hoodlums that might give me a hard time, and there really wasn't much. He just kept saying that "We can't tax you for something you didn't pay for". He wished me "Happy motoring" and told me to have at it.

He did refer to a couple publications that may help out, but they are obviously not directed towards WMO usage.

If anybody is interested, look into-

Publication 720

Form 2290

Form 8910

I looked at them a little bit, but they didn't seem to answer too many of my questions.
 

rat4spd

New member
652
10
0
Location
Evansdale, Iowa
Not paying taxes on "what you didn't pay for" doesn't fly. Ask the senator who was given a car for transportation about paying taxes, or any of a multitude of gifting that you owe taxes on what you got for free.

If there's a way to tax it, they will.
 

BEASTMASTER

Active member
899
142
43
Location
Burgaw, N.C.
ya, but you're gonna pay a tax on that 4 or 5 gals of oil when you buy it.??? and i assume you're gonna thin it with some gas or some diesel? i don't think it's any diff. than these people using wvo.
 

tjcouch

New member
662
2
0
Location
Tampa, FL
I really don't think there is going to be an answer until someone gets "dipped" and reports back . . . . . roll the dice, if you will, and let us know!
 

rat4spd

New member
652
10
0
Location
Evansdale, Iowa
I've got no problem rolling. Considering my part time gig has one location with a lube bay, I can get all the WMO I want for next to nothing.
 

smoothnu

Member
46
0
6
Location
collinsville/al. 35961
You are allowed to keep a running tally on your mileage for the IRS. What would be the difference? For the Feds if you have a calender with you mileage recored that is all you need. I can't see why this would not apply to fuel consumption too.
 

XM 2742

New member
202
6
0
Location
Lott Texas
Check the exemption ..400 gallons or whatever and report 399 gallons on wmo used.

First ya have to get dipped...then ya have to get ticketed........then they have to prove ya used more than the 400 or whatever gallon exemption.

Like the lawyer said..........they estimate based on information YOU give them.......399 is as legal as 398 or 397................and your tank holds 55 gallons.

In this day and age fuel conservation is a plus and recycleing makes you a saint so if ya get ticketed call the local paper and raise a stink............poor guy saveing the environment gets caught in a nightmare just trying to do the right thing.

The entire scenerio hinges on ya getting caught with more than the minimum amount of WMO in the first place...........fat chance if ya keep your mouth shut.
 

fabiodriven

New member
109
0
0
Location
East Bridgewater, Mass
Check the exemption ..400 gallons or whatever and report 399 gallons on wmo used.

First ya have to get dipped...then ya have to get ticketed........then they have to prove ya used more than the 400 or whatever gallon exemption.

Like the lawyer said..........they estimate based on information YOU give them.......399 is as legal as 398 or 397................and your tank holds 55 gallons.

In this day and age fuel conservation is a plus and recycleing makes you a saint so if ya get ticketed call the local paper and raise a stink............poor guy saveing the environment gets caught in a nightmare just trying to do the right thing.

The entire scenerio hinges on ya getting caught with more than the minimum amount of WMO in the first place...........fat chance if ya keep your mouth shut.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I only had my truck on the road for about two months but I ran WMO from day one until the last day I had it.
 

UNCLEBUSTA

New member
3
0
0
Location
norfolk, ma
heres my two cents(not thats its worth anything just something to consider) i live in mass and work for a heavy truck dealer. as a repair facility with a waste oil furnace we must report the comsumption of umo. so if we must report it someones gonna want something for it(tax / credit(lol) / liscense fee etc.) remember this is TAXachusetts!! to be really certain i would call the foxboro barracks and ask for officer chan. he if anyone would know what you can and cant do when it comes to commercial vehicles. remember hes one of the people who would be handing you a ticket if you did something wrong/illegal
 

wdbtchr

New member
883
3
0
Location
St. Louis, MO
I can't speak to the legality elsewhere, but here in Missouri they have what they call a Fuel Blenders Permit. It costs $75 a year and allows you to use any combination of recycle fuels on the road legally. I rarely drive on the roads so I don't have a problem of getting caught.
 

MSgt USMC (Ret)

New member
100
8
0
Location
Concord, NC
In Mass anything is possible. I was born, raised and stationed there for a while in the service. That's why I live in NC now. Good luck with the tax and political crap up there it's too much for me to deal with.
 

chevyCUCV

New member
598
5
0
Location
Massachusetts
Great info here
I still dont want to get in trouble so i am going to call the Department of revenue. Make sure they dont have any process for people running "waste oils" before i start to run 50/50 in my CUCV
 
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