Stud length on Rear axles

[Tackettr]

Hey guys I'm about to put HEMMT 2-peice combat rims on my 817. I need tp verify that the rear axle studs are long enough without using the budd sockets? Is this correct? I know I will have to use them on the front.

My plan is to use the normal studs & nuts in the rear and budd sockets & nuts in the front. Will this work?

Thanks.

 

[Westech]

the rears you should be fine ,fronts there are longer ones you can install. I just got the correct factory combat rims for the 5 ton. Little extra money but will worth the safty point.

 

[73m819]

before you do, read the threads about the use of thimbles on the front, I believe the studs are the same f/r, if that is true, the above suggested thread would apply to both

 

[Westech]

buhhhhh you are corect 73... you will need longer ones all around. The longer studds you can get at just about any truck place (have seen them on Eastern surplus also) and are only a couple bucks each. I would NOT use the thimles... Remember what happened to Gimp.... Snapo snapo

 

[73m819]

I HATE, HATE SEARCH, cant find the thread that the OP NEEDS to read

 

[KsM715]

Ron, is it this one? The one discussing the safety aspect of grinding down the thimbles?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/5-ton-up/51124-m813-wheel-studs.html


I also have a set of HEMMT wheels that I got when I picked up my M818, I have changed my mind about using thimbles vs longer studs after reading that.

 

[Tackettr]

Well after chasing several rabbits on this and treads getting jack on tangents. Can someone confirm that the rear threads are indeed longer? That is the only question I need answered right now. Thanks.

 

[73m819]

tm-20p---F/R studs are the same, same P/N

 

[M813A1]

Hi Tackettr !! Yes I can confirm that the rear studs will be long enugh !! However you will need to add the inner cap nuts to the front studs so they will be long enough !! As you know I had the 2 piece HEMMTT rims on my truck for awhile !! Check with M1075 for the info you need he is who helped me with the 1400 r 20 tires I had on my truck !!

 

[KsM715]

Still seems to be conflicting info on this subject.

 

[Alredneck]

Hmm yes I agree KS! Is it the hub flange taht is thicker on the front than the rear? Cause if the rear is the same part number as the fronts then they should have the same amount of ussuable threads and wouldnt require the thimbles. I mounted my 14s with the thimbles but am now second guessing after reading some of this! I will be out at Talon tommorrow so can get some measurements.

 

[jdgreen]

Now I have a ? For u guys on this subject. What about taking and using some old rims. Machining the flat wheel mount plate surface off a old 5 ton rim. Install it on the truck using the thimbles then putting ur hemtt wheels on using the outter dual nuts. Same way you would mount duals. But u are using ur hemtt wheels instead.

Essentially this would allow the hemtt wheel to sit flush to the hub surface (kinda) vs riding on the thimble edges. Wouldn't it be a lot safer since the wheel would be against a flush surface? Or would it stress the studs cause the rim is out another 3/8"? Got to be better then just thimbles.

 

[KsM715]

I like wheree this thread is going. TM references, exchange of good ideas and no pissing and moaning about how one thing will or will not work.

jdgreen's idea sounds good. Any input on whether or not it will put any more stress on the studs?

 

[Tackettr]

Thanks M813A1, M1075 was thinking that was the case but I wanted to confirm it. Not sure why they are since they appear to have the same part number.

 

[DaveP]

I dont know anything about the part #s but when I put the HEMMT wheels on my M819 the rear studs were plenty long and the front were to short.
I replaced them with longer studs rather than play with the thimble method.
It may work fine that way but I didnt want to take the chance.

 

[KsM715]

If we weren't busy with Christmas stuff today I'd go out and pull the front and rears off one side of my M818 to see why the studs appear longer on the rear but have the same p/n as the fronts. I'm betting Alredneck has it right about the hub flanges being different thickness. Scratch that, doesnt the front drum slip over the studs on the fronts?

 

[73m819]

If we weren't busy with Christmas stuff today I'd go out and pull the front and rears off one side of my M818 to see why the studs appear longer on the rear but have the same p/n as the fronts. I'm betting Alredneck has it right about the hub flanges being different thickness. Scratch that, doesnt the front drum slip over the studs on the fronts?

NO
According to the TM-20p, group 13, figures 211/213, pages 210/213, the hub PN 7979324, is the SAME, F/R, also the studs PN 7409554/7409555 are the same F/R
So if there is a problem with front short studs not having a full nut with these rims, then the rears should have the same problem, the proper fix is LONGER studs, the use of thimbles does not get the rim flat/tight to the hub

Also, the thimbles arn't rated as a stand-alone nut,(emg. only) it needs to be between the two rims and the bud nut for it's strength

 

[KsM715]

Ron, I agree with you on the fix, longer studs. But Im just curious as to why they appear shorter in the front.

I went out and looked at mine with the wheels on, (I dont have time to remove them now) on the rear you can see the backside of the hub and the the head of the stud, the rear drum is spaced away from the hub. On the front the drum is tight against the back of the hub, now I have not looked in the TM's or had my front drums off so I dont know if the studs are pressed thru the drum into the hub or if there are holes machined into the drum to fit around the head of the stud.

 

[73m819]

the wheel studs do not hold the drum on as on OTR trucks, the studs go though a adaptor then the hub, this adaptor in turn bolts to the drum, TWO different set of studs. the front has a different adaptor then the rear, plus the rear also has a dirt deflector, on top of this the hub is flipped compared to the front, so with the different hub arrangements, the exposed stud length may be different
as for pic #2, looks like way the rear hub is set up

 

[Rene M]

There is another option.
This is what i have on mine 5 ton. I am using trailer inner lugs for a trailer that housed aluminum wheels. They have an inner taper that actually going in to the rim and helps to center it. Which works well with the deep holes on the combat wheels. Combat wheels were designed to be hub piloted not lug while most 5 tons were all lug piloted.

a pic before i used the lugs, i do not have a pic for after yet.

http://adriana.12thfloor.com/main.php/d/15515-2/2000+ITR+track+R+065.jpg