power limitations of a 250 Cummins?

[Machinist22]

So, I was wondering. Has anyone ever gone all out on a 250 Cummins to see how much power they could get out of it? Or the CAT 3116 for that matter? The reason I ask is, I have been doing some looking through this site and several others, and get the general idea that 170 hp is average at about 2700 RPM. Is that about right?
I know that there are some major differences between engines but my cousin has a '03 Dodge pickup with the 5.9 Cummins (computerized and everything), but with a fair amount of money dumped into it and some pretty simple (but expensive) mods, he's pushing over 600 hp and just over 1000 ft/lbs of torque. I don't know why a person couldn't get close to this with the M35A2 engine? Or because of the vintage, would a person be better off to do the 5.9 with a 6-speed behind it? That would be a pretty cool setup! If someone has done this I would love to see some pics and get some tech info.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[m16ty]

You can add a turbo to get a few horses and increase the fuel setting a little but that's about it. Nobody really goes to great lengths to "hop up" the 250 because you can just drop a 500+ hp model in the same place. They are dimensionally the same size and the same cid (855cid).

 

[Machinist22]

Mileage?

How's about mileage? What I'm familiar with (not very much, but more than the 250), the 5.9 from the pickups can put out a lot of horsepower and still, if drivin easy can give almost 20 mpg. What do these Dueces weigh?
What do the 855 cid's do for mileage? Maybe that's a stupid question for a discussion about, basically, a big-rig. What are the specs on the high horsepower engines (years made, ID, etc.)

Thanks alot!
Jim

 

[nk14zp]

The 250 is not in a deuce.

 

[Floridianson]

Sorry you can't just drop the bigger motor inplace of the 250 as the harmonic bal. is bigger and you must rework the front motor mount.

 

[Machinist22]

You're right, my bad.
On Idaho Motor Pool's web site (where I have been shopping, cause it's close to my place) it says NHC 250 Cummins on all the 5-ton trucks (dump trucks, tractor rigs, and wreckers), all the listings for the M35A2's just say "turbo diesel". What engine would this be? Thanks so much for your patience with me. I can't wait til I can pick up an M35A2! I am getting really siked going through this site and looking at all the threads. You guys have an awesome community here. Can't wait to have something in common with you all.

Thanks again,
Jim

 

[drgreg]

Deuce - Steel Soldiers::Military Vehicles Supersite Start here
Then go to the Deuce forum and read, read, read. All of your questions should be answered. If not, ask away.

 

[davey8943]

Machinist,

Welcome to Steel Soldiers! I bought a Deuce about a year ago and have already had 10 years worth of fun with it!!!! You won't be disappointed with this truck!

But, back to your question!

Per TM 2320-361-24-1:

Manufacturer: ................................. Hercules Engines, Inc. or Continental Motors, Inc.
Model.......................................................................................................... LDT-465-1D
Type .............................. Turbocharged, six cylinder, in-line, liquid-cooled, multifuel
Weight ................................................................................................................ 1,650 lb


Brake horsepower:
Gross (fan belts removed) .............................................................................. 140 hp @ 2,600 rpm
Net (fan belts installed) .................................................................................. 130 hp @ 2,600 rpm
Torque:
Gross . ............................................................................................................. 305 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm
Net ................................................................................................................... 297 lb-ft@ 1,500 rpm


That manual is GREAT for details about systems of the truck.... Steel Soldiers usually has them available for down load, unfortunately the "old site" is down right now. If you would like a pdf copy, pm me your email address and I'll send a copy over!



Dave

 

[nk14zp]

JATONKA's M35 TM download page

 

[emr]

millions of threads on this to answer all your questions, 250s ...these are old but powerful and reliable motors, soopping them up is ...well silly... U may be in the wrong hobby, these trucks were built to go as fast as they do, speed is NOT what determines the coolness or efficiency of these trucks, there brakes and suspension are all made for what they have, U need a different truck not a built up motor, sorry but true. with that said, u are in for a real surprise when u drive the multi, it also is what it is, and slow, but thats what makes it what it is, there are guys who need the need to go fast, but like i said, its not what these trucks can handle. good luck and hope U still find it cool after owning one for awhile, they sure are cool to drive and own,

 

[Machinist22]

Oh, I'm sure I won't be disappointed! I just can't wait to own one! I don't have a need to go fast, I just want to get up to the speed limit quickly, if you know what I mean. To be able to pull away from the average car at a stop light. I know these things aren't an indy car and that's fine, that's not what I wan't. Just want to pump as much power as is feasible out of the engine. I was thinking of doing a disk brake conversion as well so even if I did "go fast" I would be able to stop effectively as well.
I love driving big trucks, although I haven't gotten much of a chance yet. I used to drive my dad's old '63 REO 5 yard dump truck around and it was a blast. Not much to look at but people sure got out of the way! Now I am relegated to my '89 F350 crew cab. Not bad, but not big enough.
My other questions about mileage are because of the fact that if I can afford to drive it, it would be my daily driver. It's just too cool!
Plus the ability to go off road makes it the best all around truck. I love going out and exploring logging roads. There's miles and miles of them around my place. Go til the road stops and then keep going!!! Weeeee!!!!

Jim

 

[FormerNewMVGuy]

The multifuel engine is what it is as far as HP, you can turn em up a little , but if you hammer on em they tend to window the block right around #3 cylinder.

Its made to go 52 mph , not real quick off the line, a poorly designed brake system.... But if you take the truck for what it is, you will have a blast with it, They go real good off road , they will pull a house down... Perfect truck for exploring logging roads.
Buy the truck , drive it alittle ,get use to it, Then do a little minor tweaking on the IP, But only after you have gone over the braking system.
I always enjoy driving my deuce, very dependable...

 

[Stalwart]

Back in the late 70's, we had a dump truck that had a 250 with an added turbo. With the fuel turned way up it was putting down over 400hp to the rear wheels. That was on a Dyno at a Cummins shop.

 

[R Racing]

The 1 thing about the cummins there not real big HP engines ( not saying you can't modify them to). But you would not believe the torque they produce . everyone is concerned about HP but without tourque ur not moving that big mass of steel . So due some homework and you will better understand these engines. I couldn't imagine a 5.9 in place of my cummins 400 in my M920, The 5.9 may make more ponnies, and I could be wrong but I would bet you would find a broken crank in no time trying to motivate that truck.

 

[Machinist22]

I appreciate it. I will definitely drive it the way it is for quite a while before I "turn it up". The only reason I brought up the 5.9 is because it is capable of a considerable amount of hp and tq. I just like the idea of having something that it totally unexpected. My cousin was driving his Dodge with his camper on it while pulling a trailer with a Ford 8N tractor on it. A 5.0 Mustang was coming up on the outside lane (which was ending) and trying to get ahead of him. My uncle, who was riding with him, said that when my cousin put his foot in it, it literally threw him back in the seat and the Mustang didn't have a chance.
Not that I'm looking to do THAT neccesarily, but there is just something awesome about a large truck being able to SMOKE a little rice burner tuner import car. You know.

I'll definitely do a LOT more homework before I tackle any project, but I'm just trying to get a good frame of thought right now. I think I like the idea of re-doing the brakes regardless of the HP/TQ.

 

[sp00n]

I appreciate it. I will definitely drive it the way it is for quite a while before I "turn it up". The only reason I brought up the 5.9 is because it is capable of a considerable amount of hp and tq. I just like the idea of having something that it totally unexpected. My cousin was driving his Dodge with his camper on it while pulling a trailer with a Ford 8N tractor on it. A 5.0 Mustang was coming up on the outside lane (which was ending) and trying to get ahead of him. My uncle, who was riding with him, said that when my cousin put his foot in it, it literally threw him back in the seat and the Mustang didn't have a chance.
Not that I'm looking to do THAT neccesarily, but there is just something awesome about a large truck being able to SMOKE a little rice burner tuner import car. You know.

I'll definitely do a LOT more homework before I tackle any project, but I'm just trying to get a good frame of thought right now. I think I like the idea of re-doing the brakes regardless of the HP/TQ.

You may be getting into the wrong hobby. We are talking about a 13,500lb (this is the 2.5ton truck, not a 5 ton) truck with 130hp/300ftlb driving it. You'd be lucky to beat a dump truck in a race, and after you get over 50mph (if you even get to it) you will automatically lose every time because you will be out of gear.

 

[dozer1]

So NHC 250 buffs,
I am getting my injectors and pump checked out for my M817 as I rebuild the engine in it. How much can I saftely get the pump set at in say HP terms. 275, 290, more?

 

[emr]

Back in the late 70's, we had a dump truck that had a 250 with an added turbo. With the fuel turned way up it was putting down over 400hp to the rear wheels. That was on a Dyno at a Cummins shop.

My lack of knowledge on what a 250 can be bumped to do is showing ,now for how long it will last is a part of this too, i think with knowledgeable drivers like stalwart is its a go, and my post is my opinion in the range of my knowledge... like spOOn says for the deuce I also agree with , with that said for most joes my post makes sense, but this is awesome. Sooo, if I had the knowledge I would have a different point of view, stalwarts post sounds incredibly great to me, and man that is sweet... good answer, U are getting the max to keep it stock answers,and the 2 motors most of us will have, cool stuff...

 

[Machinist22]

not exactly what I want

You may be getting into the wrong hobby. We are talking about a 13,500lb (this is the 2.5ton truck, not a 5 ton) truck with 130hp/300ftlb driving it. You'd be lucky to beat a dump truck in a race, and after you get over 50mph (if you even get to it) you will automatically lose every time because you will be out of gear.

I completely understand. I am not wanting to get into the hobby to go fast. I know that's not what its about. I also know that I probably won't ever have a snowballs chance in **** of doing what my cousin did with his Dodge. Most of my usage will be off road anyway. I am just wanting to explore my options with some power upping.

Just thinking, if a guy wanted to really go all out, there are all different kinds of options, I suppose. We'll see what happens.

 

[Marinawreckers]

I'm confused. What's this go fast talk? Wrong motor, wrong transmission, wrong truck. But if you want something that starts, runs and will drag half of your town behind it, go with a 5 ton with a 250 Cummins. P.S. I had one of mine in high range today...whee!!!