HELP!! installing the rebuilt IP - MEP-002A Refurb Update

[joesco]

Treeguy,
You should contract with the DOD as you write in English, simple enough for an ape to understand! Thanks for nice "cheat sheet". I am going to print it out and use it to re-time the unit this week.

Yes, pumps going until they slow down, preheat for 60 to 90 seconds, then start. Runs for several seconds then dies.

The rebuilt pump came without a button. I ordered a new button from Ambac based on the calculations in the TM and assistance from Tom to confirm it was the right button and installed it using the darn "jesus" ring.

As far as removing the two injectors, the small lines to each injector are not coming off as the small nuts are stripped. So removing the injectors will be my last resort as I will have to cut the lines off to remove both injectors. Then more expense as I will then need all new lines!

Thanks again!!

 

[treeguy]

Speddmon, I think Lucky will have a problem with this. Didn't he say that he can't get the high press. lines loose?

Also how possible is it to (the face gear and the cam gear) be off by one tooth either way? Would the engine still run (like crap)?

If these guys have gotten this far with fuel here and out of the IP under press. and a clean return oriface and line, the only thing left would be the injectors right? But I don't understand why they would run and then shortly quit unless there is a squeek of residual fuel or eather that magically accumulated. But that would be a one time deal and she wouldn't fire on the second try of the ignition.
Do you remember what PaulbusMax said about his linkage having backed out a holding screw because the locking tab wasn't bent down? Just a thought, I don't think it would be causing the effect these guys have.

 

[joesco]

Tom,
Excellent write-up, but to confirm, if I do use Method II and I do have the right button, fuel should stop at the PC mark. But if it does not, how will I know if it is a timing or incorrect button issue. Sorry to sound thick as mud, but I have MEP BURNOUT!!!!

 

[treeguy]

AIR, I need air to breath. This may be a streach with a different look at this problem.

How is everyones air supply and system, if your east of Nevada you may still be free of radioactive air? Are the Green Iron Machines west of Nevada still breathing OK?

So you check the air filter, and you check all the tubing thru the manifold into the engine, now what? Is there some valve or cam malfunction restricting the air into the cylinder so you only get a shot from the injector without air. I think that would be far fetched. I don't know, just trying to think outside the box!

 

[treeguy]

Joe, for the **** of it (sorry, I said it) Line up the PC mark, put the wire in the side of the IP and install the IP. Try to run it, if it runs YOU GOT IT, if not, take it out, put the wire in the IP and turn to the PC mark again. Its a 50/50 shot, I got lucky, I'll pray for some good ju-ju it works.

 

[treeguy]

WOW that was cool they auto bleep swear words!
How many bleeps do we get before trouble?

 

[Speddmon]

Tom,
Excellent write-up, but to confirm, if I do use Method II and I do have the right button, fuel should stop at the PC mark. But if it does not, how will I know if it is a timing or incorrect button issue. Sorry to sound thick as mud, but I have MEP BURNOUT!!!!

If the fuel DOES NOT stop at the "PC" mark like it should, line up the "PC" mark and put the 1/8" rod in the side of the IP. If it goes in as far as it did when you mounted it (you can even use your old pump as a gauge...install the rod and rotate the gear until the rod slips in, and mark the rod...now you have a depth gauge to use), then you are timed correctly and it's a button issue. If it does not, then you may be off a tooth on the timing. I say to use the 1/8" rod because, anything smaller in diameter, may have enough play to slide in the hole if you are only off a tooth. The 1/8" is really close to the opening of the holes and should not let the gearing be off at all, or the rod just won't go in.

 

[Speddmon]

Speddmon, I think Lucky will have a problem with this. Didn't he say that he can't get the high press. lines loose?

I thought Lucky had the same issue with the small lines as Joe is having, and not the pressure lines???

Also how possible is it to (the face gear and the cam gear) be off by one tooth either way? Would the engine still run (like crap)?

It's very possible for them to be off by a tooth, like I mentioned above, if you use something smaller than the recommended 1/8" dia. rod, you may have enough slop to get them off by a tooth. I have to imagine it could very well act just as they are describing, it would be just like having the timing in your car either advanced or retarded too much....you may get lucky and it will run (probably like crap though), or it may not even start at all.

If these guys have gotten this far with fuel here and out of the IP under press. and a clean return oriface and line, the only thing left would be the injectors right? But I don't understand why they would run and then shortly quit unless there is a squeek of residual fuel or eather that magically accumulated. But that would be a one time deal and she wouldn't fire on the second try of the ignition.
Do you remember what PaulbusMax said about his linkage having backed out a holding screw because the locking tab wasn't bent down? Just a thought, I don't think it would be causing the effect these guys have.

I think you are correct, all that should be left are the injectors and lines, but we don't know for sure that they are getting fuel under the proper pressure to the injectors. Without a gauge to measure it, you don't know 100% if you are getting pressurized fuel or just fuel flowing through the pump to the injectors.

 

[LuckyDog]

And where the hocky stick is Orlando Bloom, I mean Lucky? He's missing all the fun!

I'm still here following the thread closely.

Joe is still asking all the right questions and it is his thread. I am just sponging up the info.

I thought Lucky had the same issue with the small lines as Joe is having, and not the pressure lines???

Yes, the return lines from the injectors are stuck. My calculating mind is thinking that :
"IF it runs for a few seconds, after letting go of the start switch,
AND it is running well / smoothly before it stops
AND it stops as if someone turned off the fuel
BUT the fuel selonoid did NOT cause the fuel to stop...

THEN...

It is possible (probable?) that the pressure builds up in the return line and causes the motor to stop.



I haven't tried to pull the line again, yet. I am soaking them with PB and waiting for a glow plug to arrive. (ordered two, so I have a spare in case the other one dies)

When that arrives, I plan on working on it again. I will attempt to pull every fitting and line, in the return path, from the tank to the injectors to inspect for cleanliness. This includes the Tee-fitting on the IP.

Remember, my fuel tank had about 1/4" of mud? on the bottom of it. So the fuel had turned pretty nasty. But the fuel left in the filters looked pretty good. The strainers in the fuel pumps needed xylene to clean them up.

 

[joesco]

Guys, TIMING IS VERY THING IS LIFE!!! This morning I ended up pulling the pump and re-timing it to the engine using Method 1. Holy tomolo! After about half dozen attempts, bleeding the air out of the lines again, HE CAME TO LIFE!!!!

BUT.....

It ran for about 5 minutes and died. I am pretty convinced now (as Tom suggested) that the tig welding repair on the number 2 high pressure injector line is restricting fuel. I was able to generate power for a short time to about 60 hertz, but I had a lot of smoke and it was running extremely rough. So the plan now is find a replacement for the #2 high pressure fuel to tha injector. The Seller had promised a set of fuel lines and a take-off IP for all my trouble, so I am going to email him again to find out if I am going to receive those parts. I sure hope he keeps his WORD!

If not, I understand that these fuel lines are hard to come by. I can get a replacement from Delk's but they are $35.00 per line. I will probably wait on the Seller for another few days to see if he responds to my email. He is supposed to have several parts machines at his scrap yard in MD.

Just can't believe I messed on the timing!!!!!!!!!!! But I am sure relieved that it is able to run and generate power. I am hoping a replacement fuel line will solve the outstanding issues!

I can't THANK you guys enough for all the help and support with this project!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LuckyDog]

AWESOME!!!!!! on the 5 minutes

Hope your high pressure lines show up soon. Want to hear that you got an even longer run out of him.

 

[Speddmon]

out-freakin-standing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad to hear that it's finally breathing life again. Now to get past 5 minutes! Keep in mind that the generator is never going to be extremely smooth. It is only a 2 cylinder after all, just by it's very nature it's going to be a little rough.

Did the smoke seem to get any lighter over the few minutes it ran? Was it white, or blueish? Details man, we need details...LOL

 

[joesco]

Tom,
You, Carl, Ike and many our fellow Steelers kept the advice, suggestions and encouragement going to keep me focused and motivated to follow through! Many thanks!

Mostly white and some black smoke, no blue smoke at all and it did lighten up a bit as it continued to run, but as it seemed to skip a bit there were puffs of black. But it sure sounded like it was a one lunger! Also, I did have pretty good oil pressure, approaching 30psi. My hertz was steady at 60, but then was jumping all over the place shortly before he stalled out. What was a bit concerning (paranoid to say the least) was that after he ran for that 5 minutes or so, it was difficult starting again???? Had to leave it, because my batteries needed charging again. Boy, these units have rugged starters, because mine has taken a beating over the last few weeks, OOPPPS just jinx myself!

I hoping a new (or take-off) fuel line will make the fat lady sing mighty loud finally! Again, just can't believe I screwed up the timing the first time around! I hope I hear back from jasonn (the Seller and Fellow Steeler) soon.

Update... Just heard back from jasonn and his email said he should be able to shipping the parts later this week, if all goes well with his excavator repair!

out-freakin-standing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad to hear that it's finally breathing life again. Now to get past 5 minutes! Keep in mind that the generator is never going to be extremely smooth. It is only a 2 cylinder after all, just by it's very nature it's going to be a little rough.

Did the smoke seem to get any lighter over the few minutes it ran? Was it white, or blueish? Details man, we need details...LOL

 

[treeguy]

Joe, that is GREAT NEWS!!!! I'm glad to hear that your genny still has life in her.

I think you are right about the one cylinder skipping issue that I inturprite from what you said. If it ran for a while and then started jumping around and you saw blackish smoke before it quit, that tells me that one of the cylinders stopped firing. I was going to say that the black smoke would be from the unburnt fuel from the cyl. that was not firing, but I'm not sure now because of the welding/fuel restriction issue. We'll see after you replace it right?!!!!

Speddmon is right about the rough running, I took off the tool box on the trailer the generator is on because all the vibration was outragous. (NORMAL!)

See how dumb the answer to some things are? I feel ya, if I was me I was going to kick myself in the pants after I had checked most EVERYTHING and it still wouldn't run even with a new pump. No button, man was I hot. I didn't know till a couple of days later they don't come with buttons, esp since I was so focused on the no fuel problem. Then I descovered the shattered drive washer and was like DUUUUUUUH, no wonder why. Its always the stupid stuff!

Good luck, can't wait to hear an update!

 

[Speddmon]

Joe, any further information about the parts you need? I gotta check around, I might be able to come up with some IP lines for you if you need them.

 

[joesco]

Tom,
Been down with health issues over the last several weeks. Thanks very much for your parts assistance! It looks like fellow SS member Jason, the Seller that sold me the genset, based on a ad on SS, has put his promise of replacement parts at the bottom of his priority list. After waiting on him for four months for the take-off IP and fuel lines, I just went ahead and ordered a line from Delk's for the number 2 fuel injector for $20.00 plus shipping on Thursday and should have it next week. Will post next week when I install, bleed and hopefully get him running! Thanks again!

Joe, any further information about the parts you need? I gotta check around, I might be able to come up with some IP lines for you if you need them.

 

[joesco]

Tom,
He RUNS!!!!!!!!! Thanks again for all your help and encouragement Tom, and many of the other fellow Steelers that helped along the way!!!! This morning I installed the new (take-off fuel line, from Delk's) bleed the lines and he started up after a few tries. Lots of black and BLUE smoke (probably from the mystery marvel oil burning off) for the first five minutes and then he cleaned right up and ran very smooth for about 25 minutes producing nice smooth current!

Can't thank you folks enough. I have a few more kinks to work out, one of the batteries is not charging, wiring up my 100' cable, cleaning and painting the unit and then and only then I shall be prepared for when darkness falls.

My thoughts go out to those poor folks in the Southeast! Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Speddmon]

Joe, that is GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!

As to the batteries, unless one of them is bad they should both charge (hooked in series they have no choice but for both of them to take some charge), you'll need to go over the charging system and make sure it's working properly. Here is a link to a post I made for another member who was having charging issues...check the charging system.

That post assumes you have the "front" cover off of the set. The TM says the front is the cover over the blower wheel. That post will narrow down any troubles you may be having with your charging system. Also, like I told you in a PM, you need to have batteries that were a matched pair, or they will not charge evenly. Good luck with the batteries and keep us informed.

 

[treeguy]

Nice job Joe! That is excelent news! You are right about the southeast, I was watching it unfold on the Weather Channel and it was scary! Its no Japan, but its here and I feel real bad for our friends down there.