Bad Starter, Again

[MatthewH]

Pretty sure my starter took a crap, again, for a 4th time in my '09. Just wanted to run it by you guys to make sure I was correct.

Went out at lunch to move truck to load some stuff, hit the key to start, and nothing. I could hear the bendix engage the flexplate, but no cranking. Tried several times, with same results. This has happened before, but it has always "fixed" itself.
Reached under the dash, and checked the relay, was warm, along with the wires going to it. I grabbed a new one from the glove box and replaced it. Tried again, this time nothing, no cranking, no noise. Turned the key off, and pulled the keys from the ignition, reached under dash again and the starter began cranking. Pulled new relay, waited a minute, and put in the old relay. Tried again, this time with no results. Pulled relay and called buddy for a tow.

Plan on replacing the starter and doing a 12v conversion, since this is the 4th time i have had issues with the 24v system, especially the starter, but wanted to make sure it was the starter, not some other issue that has developed.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post

MatthewH

 

[idM1028]

Seeing as how you may have to replace the starter anyways, I would at least have it tested when you take it out. Have you done the doghead relay mod? The stock relays are known to have issues. Also, if this is the 4th time this has happened, I would look into something being wrong with the rest of the truck, not the starter. Might also want to try the troubleshooting section in the TM. Just some thoughts.

 

[MatthewH]

Yep, it has had the doghead relay mod done. I was refering to the relay under the dash you remove when the starter sticks on.

I have had nothing but problems with the starter since i first had it rebuilt. It broke the front mount bolt, and one of the rear mounting bolts. causing it to twist and chew up the bendix. Since then, it has been in and out for various bendix problems. The only place to have it fixed is an hour away, and i'm tired of the down time. He keeps fixing it for parts cost only, but it keeps adding up.

I'll go through the wiring, since it has had problems in the past, but I still think its the starter. But i'm still open to ideas or different paths to try first.

Thanks

 

[idM1028]

Well in that case, definitely go through the wiring. You wouldn't believe how much trouble it can cause on these trucks. Contacts can also be a big pain in the a**. You wouldn't believe how much your voltage can go up if you clean the contacts on these trucks. A bronze bore brush from a gun cleaning kit works great on them. Usually the contacts either have a ring terminal on them and can be unbolted or can be popped out of whatever plug they're in with a small screwdriver.

 

[mistaken1]

Yep, it has had the doghead relay mod done. I was refering to the relay under the dash you remove when the starter sticks on.

The relay under the dash you remove when the starter sticks on is the one that the doghead modification replaces. I thought once you replaced that relay with the doghead relay you could no longer just unplug it.

 

[TSgt.Kuchta]

Personal experiance,
Clean and check the engine ground connection, clean and check the battery cable connections, make sure your starter has it's heat shield and above all carry-out the Doghead relay modification.
If you can unplug the starter relay it is not the Doghead mod.

Also, a bad battery connection will drain the system and possible stress-out the starter and shorten it's operational life (bought my M1009 this April and am on my 4th Starter).

Out of all the vehicles I have ever owned my M1009 is the most sensitive to dirty power/ground connections.

Just my $.02.

Steve

 

[Warthog]

And something else to check. Does your starter need shims for the bendix to clear the flywheel teeth? The tech manual covers how to check it. If the bendix keeps getting stuck on the flywheel than I would say you need to a a shim or two.

and did you install the correct support bracket? Which starter do you have? Direct Drive or Gear Reduction?

 

[dstang97]

Is your starter American or chinese?

 

[SGT LongT]

Also great for cleaning electrical contacts are emery boards (nail files). Pick up a pack from the dollar store and throw some in your tool box

 

[MatthewH]

My mistake, I thought the doghead mod was in reference to the glowplugs, not the starter relay. Definatly going to do this mod.

The starter dosen't have a heat sheild, never had one when i got it, guess i'm gonna have to build one.

It has a good engine ground, but the batts look dirty, and the front bat has corrosion, looks to be slightly over charging, have to go through the elec again

The starter doesn't need shims, engages properly to the flexplate, the problems were with the bendix in the starter itself.

The starter is an american full size delco 28mt starter.

Looks like i've got another couple of days going through this elec system once again just so I can make it to work for another couple of weeks.

 

[MatthewH]

Pulled starter last night after last post. Noticed today that the starter is a gear reduction type. "Bench Tested" the starter and the bendix didn't even engage, just spun, so I crap canned the starter and I am installing a 12v starter tuesday when the parts store gets it. Leaving the duel alts, so we will see until those give me problems, and i go completly 12v.

 

[AndrewH]

I wonder if you have one of the CUCVs with the Metric Flexplate teeth. Requires a majick starter! Ok I know that doesnt help. Let me know if I can come over and swear at it for ya!

 

[ODdave]

Pulled starter last night after last post. Noticed today that the starter is a gear reduction type. "Bench Tested" the starter and the bendix didn't even engage, just spun, so I crap canned the starter and I am installing a 12v starter tuesday when the parts store gets it. Leaving the duel alts, so we will see until those give me problems, and i go completly 12v.

Something is wrong here because if bench tested right the armature will NOT spin until the bendix is ejected. Gimmie a call if you want.

 

[MatthewH]

Something is wrong here because if bench tested right the armature will NOT spin until the bendix is ejected. Gimmie a call if you want.

When we tested it, first clipped the pos jumper cable to the large lug on the solinoid, then touched the neg cable to the alum housing. the motor just spun. Then we clipped the pos jumper cable to both the large lug and the small lug the small wire goes to. Touched the neg cable to the housing again, and the motor and bendix both spun, but it never engaged outward.


Andrew, I think your right, I got to find that majik starter, but flip the metric flexplate around so it fits like an SAE plate everybody else has.

 

[MatthewH]

I wonder if you have one of the CUCVs with the Metric Flexplate teeth. Requires a majick starter! Ok I know that doesnt help. Let me know if I can come over and swear at it for ya!

You can come over and beat it with a hammer, I have an assortment of different sizes. If that dosent work, we can get out the torches.

 

[319]

I wonder if you have one of the CUCVs with the Metric Flexplate teeth.

Metric Flexplate teeth? Were you not wearing your protective equipment as directed by Team Safety and get clobbered by a tree out there in the woods Sunday?
Oh, maybe he has the 6.2.1 diesel

 

[ralbelt]

This type of info could really mess with someones mind if they don't read between the lines and realize that this is bogus info.

 

[rfischba1]

Starter

Another thing is to check the starter bolts and make sure they did not vibrate loose. I had one fall out and another one break off onside the block. had to have the motor pulled to drill it out after I broke off a hardened bit inside the bolt while trying to tap it out.

 

[MatthewH]

Another thing is to check the starter bolts and make sure they did not vibrate loose. I had one fall out and another one break off onside the block. had to have the motor pulled to drill it out after I broke off a hardened bit inside the bolt while trying to tap it out.

Bolts were tight, since i used blue loc-tite the last time i pulled the starter. That did happen to me before, which is why i first pulled the starter, and have had problems ever since.

Did get the new reman 12v starter in this morning, and whoa, what an anemic starting truck. But hey, it runs and drives, so can't complain too much.