003a breaker trips when loaded

[DieselDr]

Hook up a different, smaller load. If I remember right, the engine surges when you turn the load on. That means the gen set makes power and tries to start your load. Normally the surge and shutting off of the load means the load is too big. The gen set tries to assume the load and it is exceeding the gen sets limit. I would still like to have some pictures of the inside of the AC box.

Will have pics later this morning and it is grounded with a 6ft. copper grounding rod right next to the generator.

 

[Ray70]

When backfeeding into the 50A breaker in the house, are you able to load up the generator and get it up to 100% without tripping the breaker?
This is assuming the house has 240V loads big enough....
What gage and length is the wire you have running from the generator out to the garage?
Do you have anything 240V smaller than 5hp that you can test with in the garage either a resistance heater, welder, smaller motor?
It would be beneficial to see if by chance the motors are just barely too much surge ( especially if using a long run of wire 6Ga or thinner.)

 

[DieselDr]

Hook up a different, smaller load. If I remember right, the engine surges when you turn the load on. That means the gen set makes power and tries to start your load. Normally the surge and shutting off of the load means the load is too big. The gen set tries to assume the load and it is exceeding the gen sets limit. I would still like to have some pictures of the inside of the AC box.

Here's some pictures.
The wire from the house is 6 AWG.
I haven't used it to power the house yet, but the house 50A breaker powers the compressor without a problem.
This is a 1989 model with 1227 hrs.

 

[Guyfang]

Have you ever seen this set run and pull a load with no problem? The AC Output box looks like someone has rewired it. A lot of the connections look very close to one another.


I know this will sound strange. But leave the cover off and after dark, start the set. Turn out the lights. Have someone apply the load. You watch the open box. See any spark? This is a long shot, but if we know thats not the problem, this is one less part of the puzzle to think about.

 

[DieselDr]

Take the cover off the AC output box, is what they meant.

My breaker doesn't have any rating of amperage marked on it. There's a little light green paint on it and I carefully scraped it off where I think it should be marked, but don't see anything.

 

[DieselDr]

Have you ever seen this set run and pull a load with no problem? The AC Output box looks like someone has rewired it. A lot of the connections look very close to one another.
View attachment 925998

I know this will sound strange. But leave the cover off and after dark, start the set. Turn out the lights. Have someone apply the load. You watch the open box. See any spark? This is a long shot, but if we know thats not the problem, this is one less part of the puzzle to think about.

Truthfully no I have not.
But what struck me as odd is the frequency gauge and load gauge not working anymore.
They always did when I would start it up to make sure it was runable. I would adjust the throttle to get 60 hz. on the gauge.

 

[DieselDr]

Have you ever seen this set run and pull a load with no problem? The AC Output box looks like someone has rewired it. A lot of the connections look very close to one another.
View attachment 925998

I know this will sound strange. But leave the cover off and after dark, start the set. Turn out the lights. Have someone apply the load. You watch the open box. See any spark? This is a long shot, but if we know thats not the problem, this is one less part of the puzzle to think about.

As far as it being rewired, it had to have been done in the military.
I bought it on Government auctions and picked it up at Camp Dodge in Des Moines IA.

 

[DieselDr]

In post #1 he did mention he had 240 volts but did not specify on which lugs.

L0-L1 122v
L0-L3 122v
L1-L3 244v

 

[Guyfang]

You wrote:
My breaker doesn't have any rating of amperage marked on it. There's a little light green paint on it and I carefully scraped it off where I think it should be marked, but don't see anything. It will be on the side of the CB, behind the panel.

Truthfully no I have not. Then try unhooking the load and powering up something else. Your load could also have a problem. And trip the CB1.
But what struck me as odd is the frequency gauge and load gauge not working anymore. These sets are as old as dirt. Sooner or later the A3, (Frequency Transducer) or M3, (Freq meter) will go bad. Have you measured for 120 VAC on the left side of the A3? Because if there is no 120 VAC there, the meter can not function.
The load gage will only work when you pull a load. So since you can not pull a load, why would it work?
They always did when I would start it up to make sure it was runable. I would adjust the throttle to get 60 hz. on the gauge.

 

[DieselDr]

Take the cover off the AC output box, is what they meant.

I was using this picture you posted as a reference for the amp rating on the switch. It says 100 on it 3 times.

 

[Guyfang]

I see OFF written 3 times.

 

[2Pbfeet]

@DieselDr Thanks for the clear photos; in the series of photos that you posted, #3, the one that @Guyfang reproduced, it seemed as if the wire bundle below the switch had some brownish residue or discoloration both between the wires in one place and also where the cable ties seem to cross. Is that real, or just dirt?



In your second photo, there is a bit of wire that looks like it ends in a frayed bit of insulation. Is there an unseen connection there (red arrow)?


All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Guyfang]

You have better eye sight than I do. Thats what the at night in the dark will reveal.

 

[DieselDr]

@DieselDr Thanks for the clear photos; in the series of photos that you posted, #3, the one that @Guyfang reproduced, it seemed as if the wire bundle below the switch had some brownish residue or discoloration both between the wires in one place and also where the cable ties seem to cross. Is that real, or just dirt?
View attachment 926010


In your second photo, there is a bit of wire that looks like it ends in a frayed bit of insulation. Is there an unseen connection there (red arrow)?
View attachment 926011

All the best,

2Pbfeet

I'll have to check. I'm done for the day. It's 92 here with feels like 98.
Had to finish cutting up the 14in diameter limb that fell on my entrance cable Sunday night.
Have to be in Chicago tomorrow night for Dr appointment Wednesday morning, then drive 5 hours back.
So it's probably going to be Thursday or Friday night when I can look at it again.
Now I'm going to peruse over the TM manuals tonight.
Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[DieselDr]

You have better eye sight than I do. Thats what the at night in the dark will reveal.

Here ya go sir.

 

[2Pbfeet]

Here ya go sir.
View attachment 926016

Good luck with the trips and Dr's appointment. That's a haul, and I hope the trip is worth it.

In my limited experience with this style of panel circuit breakers, I'm used to seeing the amperage ratings on the circuit breaker inside, not outside, so I would not sweat the lack of a number outside, but I would check it none the less, in case someone grabbed the wrong box when installing it. The full numbers on the breaker can usually be looked up to find what the temperature and overcurrent specifications are.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[2Pbfeet]

You have better eye sight than I do. Thats what the at night in the dark will reveal.

Either that, or I'm chasing spider webs...

I have this funny aversion to sparks and arcs, day or night, for some reason...

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Ray70]

Don't get hung up on the 100A main breaker rating Vs the 50A breaker feeding your equipment.
Go to the top of the Generator forum and read the 002 003 Main Breaker sticky that Sewerzeuk posted long ago.
It explains the difference between the breakers in these machines and your typical thermal breaker.
It may help shed some light on your motor starting issues.

 

[Guyfang]

Thats why you get a folding chair and put it 3-4 feet away from the box. I have had some real exciting moments in my life. Light shows. So I too have a real aversion to light shows.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Thats why you get a folding chair and put it 3-4 feet away from the box. I have had some real exciting moments in my life. Light shows. So I too have a real aversion to light shows.

We recently had a buss bar failure when manually driving object over the track. 400 amps at 480 make a good boom. No injuries btw, just some soiled shorts