11R20 dual question

[Kwaligura]

I was wondering what the pros vs cons of running one tire forward and one in reverse rotation next to each other on the rear of a deuce. All of them are new old stock so none of them are used to rotating a specific direction. I have only mounted 2 so far so I can still go either way. Thanks

 

[tommys2patrick]

I presume you are asking about possible failure of a radial tire if its used to running in one direction for thousands of miles and then rotating it in the opposite direction for possibly thousands of additional miles. While bias ply (NDCC etc) tires likely would not have a problem with this operation, radials have been reported as having an issue. I have had no personal experience with premature failure of a radial tire doing this with passenger car tires, truck tires can be another animal.

I have been told by "tire experts" that in the early days of radial tires the manufacturers recommended against this practice and tire rotation practices were different than that for bias ply. however changes in materials and manufacturing processes have changed over the years and supposedly it is not much concern these days.

That being said, most heavy trucks have different tires on the front than the rear. The front's are manufactured different and are known as steerer tires. they are specific to the front the same way that "trailer" tires are specific to trailers. While other types of types could be used in these applications it may be less safe and could be possibly illegal. Or at the least if you had an accident subject you to liabilities your insurer might object to.

You might consider the age of the tires in question as a lot of "military" use, including used ones found in our hobby, are rather old but serviceable. This may mean that if they are radial types they could have been manufactured using the first generation process and not be as useful in a "change of rotation" situation.

my 2 cents

 

[Jeepsinker]

Most tires used on these trucks are not directionally biased. NDCC, NDT, G177s are all non directional. Some of the old Michelin tires are, but they are deathtrap tires and should be avoided.

 

[tobyS]

You shouldn't have a problem, especially new, but why not make it look good by keeping the direction the same?

 

[Kwaligura]

I have 8 new old stock 11r20 Michelin XLs and 2 new old stock 14.5r20 Michelin XLs to put on A3 wheels for the steers. Hopefully they will be alright as they were not cheap. I have about $3500 in all with new tubes.

 

[Kwaligura]

I'm sorry toby I didn't see your post. I like the looks of them all running in the same direction but I have been told that the XLs dig better in reverse.

 

[tobyS]

That is the combination I like best for the 6x6 deuce. In fact, I have a pair of A3 with 14.5's in the classified to do just that.

I read that directional tires should go about 40-50% before turned around, not sure where. Take the time to line them all up in the right direction...it will look better....my $.02.

 

[Kwaligura]

I saw those. I think I messaged day tripper about them because he was looking for A3 wheels. I bought my wheels from C&C Equipment for $250 each with junk tires on them.

 

[Kwaligura]

There isn't much that will make it look better lol. Except giving it to Garrett and letting him do it. The truck is pretty beat up but it's a play toy. It's going to get a dump kit on it. That's the main reason for staying with dual wheels instead of singling it. I have a 9.5ft plow for it also.

 

[tobyS]

Yea, don't really want to sell them but need $$ for the 395s for my 4x4 project. By the time you have a tire, new valve and o-ring, mounted and ready to go, I think you will see it's not a bad price.

 

[Jeepsinker]

My advice would be to stay off the road with those tires. They really look great and they perform well in the dirt, but they are literally a time bomb waiting to kill you.

 

[tobyS]

My advice would be to stay off the road with those tires. They really look great and they perform well in the dirt, but they are literally a time bomb waiting to kill you.

How many have you had fail? We (experienced large tire dude and myself) looked them over quite well when they were apart and saw no signs of water or rust in the cords...which has always been the reason I had tires fail.

 

[silverstate55]

My advice would be to stay off the road with those tires. They really look great and they perform well in the dirt, but they are literally a time bomb waiting to kill you.

IIRC, the 11R20 Michelin XLs are somewhat still available, unlike the "super single" XL tires we are used to seeing on 5-tons (14.00 & 16.00 sizes usually), that are old and unreliable, especially when sitting flat for any period of time which will damage the sidewalls.

I remember when the 14.00 XLs (aka "Super Singles") first were installed on USMC M923 trucks; some units reversed the tread pattern on one side of the truck before Desert Storm kicked off, so that the enemy wouldn't know if the truck was coming or going....one side the tread is pointing one way, the other side it's pointing the other way. It also allowed the tires to all be mounted the same way, allowing a spare to be used on either side. I don't recall ever hearing about any negative effects from "reversing" the tread pattern.

As for semi-truck tires, there are Steer, Drive, and Trailer positions for these...don't ever use Trailer tires in the Drive tires position! The sidewalls are stiffer on Drive tires to account for the torque required to get a loaded rig rolling; Steer tires have different tread/sidewall compounds to account for the scrubbing/scuffing of turning while stopped or at low speeds, as well as cornering while loaded. NEVER use Trailer tires for Steer/Drive positions!

 

[Jeepsinker]

How many have you had fail? We (experienced large tire dude and myself) looked them over quite well when they were apart and saw no signs of water or rust in the cords...which has always been the reason I had tires fail.

A few. Always due to age, not rust or anything. Rubber has a lifespan and they are all real old. That's why tires are date coded. Nobody should be running on 20-30 year old tires, even if they were stored in a warehouse.

 

[tobyS]

A few. Always due to age, not rust or anything. Rubber has a lifespan and they are all real old. That's why tires are date coded. Nobody should be running on 20-30 year old tires, even if they were stored in a warehouse.

I'd like to know more about the failures of the 14.5R20 that you had. Were they steer tires? Were you on the road mostly with them? Did they set with mud on them and not get cleaned off? Did they sit flat for long periods? Did you run them on the deuce that you put the Waterloo OD on? Please detail your experiences with the 14.5's coming apart....if our lives and the public is at risk, we want to know under what conditions these tires failed and the consequences of the failures from someone that experienced it first hand.

 

[brianp454]

When I fist saw this thread it made me wonder if 12x20's can fit on the deuce dualed without rubbing the trunnion bearing cover excessively, as I know it touches enough to wear the paint with 11x20s. If I was running 11s I'd consider a 1/4" plate to set the wheels out enough to clear. Maintaining good torque rod ends is essential too.

On running radials one direction and then another, I agree with some of the other posts. It's fine as long as it is not one of the ancient, early radials. Are they in decent shape after all this time anyway? I think the Michelin 12x20's are typically recent production (or at least not from 70's and older).

For the 14.5x20's I suspect a good number of the failures are due to the A3 trucks CTIS leaking and it allowing the wheel to lay on the ground and damage the sidewall. I have the MRAP 365/80R20 wheels with the run flats so if one fails it shouldn't be nearly as difficult to manage as it would without run flats. I think running 11x20 dualed and 365/80R20 or 14.5 on front is a neat setup. Same would go with 12x20 dualed and 365/85R20 on front would be cool if they fit on the rear. Having run flats in the singles on front helps them not sink off road and the run flats would help with the issues mentioned.

 

[Kwaligura]

All of the tires are new old stock. Never been on a wheel before. Early 2000's production. Stored inside.

 

[brianp454]

Nice score! If you have any additional concern, look at the manufacture's web site. If there was any issue with running then one way and then another, they would make it clear.

All of the tires are new old stock. Never been on a wheel before. Early 2000's production. Stored inside.

 

[tobyS]

"For the 14.5x20's I suspect a good number of the failures are due to the A3 trucks CTIS leaking and it allowing the wheel to lay on the ground and damage the sidewall."

....yes, exactly. That is what happened to the GY AT-2 14.00 on my 929 dump truck....makes them egg shaped and they get progressively worse. It's not limited to the A-3, but I agree the CTIS is a problem for most A-3's.

Most of the egg shaped and deteriorating tires will show up under a close inspection. Mine were obvious...I couldn't keep them up.

The two I am selling were not chronically flat, nor stored that way. Both had good inspection inside and out, new o-rings and stem and it strikes me as extreme to say they are a "time bomb waiting to kill you".

Your NOS Kwaligura... I think you will love them.

 

[davidb56]

Im running dual 11/20 on the rear and have 7/8-1 inch clearance at the trunion, not enough to run tri chains. Im running michelin xl 14.5x20 on a3's in the front. So in the winter I'll single chain the front and rear outside tires if I need them.