12 Volt Power - Deuce with 3 or 4 batteries

[tm america]

Is one of those alt. kit one where you can add a gm one wire and still keep your same 24v alt..

yes my kit you can still use the stock 24 volt alt.. Simple and reliable. It installs super easy and uses a 10si delco alt .i have them in stock ready to ship out

 

[andystamey]

To get back to the deep cycle question, a normal car battery is whats called a starting battery, they can provide high current flow for a short time such as engine startup, the problem with being able to deliver a high current flow is they can be damaged severely if you place a small load on them for a long time such as running a few lights until the battery dies. A deep cycle battery (also called a marine battery) allows a repetitive cycles of recharge, drain, recharge, drain, and so on without suffering much damage at all, but like the starting battery has a disadvantage the deep cycle battery has the opposite problem. They are not able to supply a high current flow for things like engine start.

 

[59apache]

ok, to protect the battery in the camper i use this:
Tiefentladeschutz, Batteriewächter

its a protectiondevice that shuts down after the voltage drops below 10,7V
its from a marine part supplier, i'm shure something like that is availible in the US.
it can stand 40A , shorterm +30%.

 

[cranetruck]

To get back to the deep cycle question, a normal car battery is whats called a starting battery, they can provide high current flow for a short time such as engine startup, the problem with being able to deliver a high current flow is they can be damaged severely if you place a small load on them for a long time such as running a few lights until the battery dies. A deep cycle battery (also called a marine battery) allows a repetitive cycles of recharge, drain, recharge, drain, and so on without suffering much damage at all, but like the starting battery has a disadvantage the deep cycle battery has the opposite problem. They are not able to supply a high current flow for things like engine start.

Pretty much sums it up. The ideal system uses two sets of batteries, one for starting (vehicle comes with this, of course) and a second, which can be isolated from the starting batteries except for charging. The second set should be deep cycle type.
"Starting" type lead acid batteries will not take a full charge after only a few deep cycles, so even a battery equalizer is not a good solution here because it will run down the starting batteries also.

To verify the state of charge on the LA batts, you must use a hydrometer to see the actual condition, just reading the voltage is not reliable, it can show "full charge" with sulfated batteries.

My solution is to have a second set consisting of Nicads, which can be charged at a very high rate and don't mind thousands of deep cycles, as a matter of fact, they must be "flattened" (discharged to zero volts every so often).
I have installed such a system on my xm757 8x8 and it's isolated with a high amperage contactor, which I control with a toggle switch. Charging/discharging current is monitored on a 0-80 ammeter.
Edit: Added image

 

[phil2968]

What is the difference between a deep cycle battery, a starting battery, and a dual-purpose battery?
A deep cycle battery has the ability to be deeply discharged and charged many times during its service life. It is designed specifically for powering electrical equipment for long periods of time. An automotive or starting battery is designed for brief bursts of high current and cannot withstand more than a few deep discharges before failure. This is why it is unable to start your car if you accidentally leave the lights on more than a couple of times. For applications where both engine starting and light deep cycling are required, a dual-purpose battery is often used. This type of battery is neither a starting nor a deep cycle battery but rather a compromise between the two so it performs both functions adequately.

Can I use my Deep Cycle battery as a starting battery?
Deep cycle batteries can be used for engine starting but starting batteries should not be used for deep cycle applications. A deep cycle battery may have less cranking amps per pound than a starting battery, but in most cases a deep cycle battery is still more than adequate for the purpose of starting an engine.

That is from the Trojan Battery website. Lots of good info there.

 

[BlizzardX23]

holy fck...now my brain hurts...

ok, Im going to have to re-read these replies lol...

"Pretty much sums it up. The ideal system uses two sets of batteries, one for starting (vehicle comes with this, of course) and a second, which can be isolated from the starting batteries except for charging." - cranetruck

^^^ EXACTLY what I want ^^^ ...lol

 

[rlwm211]

I agree with Bjorn, and my second set of batteries is not even in or near the battery box and is in my shelter in the back of my truck.

RL

 

[fuzzytoaster]

This is what I have in my battery box...1 battery is not being used (2 arent being used...but only one extra fits in the box)...I want to hook that battery up so that it charges with the system and doesnt slow drain to death. Should I hook that battery up in parallel to one of the others?


I have done the search, and I've read the posts about 12volts in the deuce.


My question to you all follows:

- I'd like to have my 24 volt system stay the way it is...
- I would like to hook up the 2 extra batteries in parallel for the amps to run anything I may wish, on 12 volts.

This is how I picture it...
Somehow, hook my (2) extra batteries up to my (2) truck batteries to charge while I drive...then while camping, disconnect the extra batteries from my truck batteries with a cut-off switch and use those for camping...if the extra batteries die while camping, my 24 volt system is still full and wont leave me stranded...

As well, if Im out off-roading, I can run all my extra 12v lights and tools on my 12v system



Any suggestions or tips?

I've seen the converters/inverters/regulators...but dont know if that would work for what Im asking? plus, those will fry if I go through the shallow part of the lake (water in cab)

I had this exact idea in mind last night but with only 1 12v battery. A simple converter would suffice for my needs as they will be rather light like radio and such.

 

[mudguppy]

Does this look right?


I forgot to illustrate ground cable for 12v batteries to truck...but aside from that...is that how it would hook up?

no. look at the manual that Stalwart posted; diagram on page 5. this is the easiest way to hook up the system and get 12V from two batteries in series and maintain your 24V charging system. this is exactly how i did it.

this is much easier than adding a second alternator, and more cost effective in the long run.

 

[tm america]

How much do battery equalizers cost ?You can put a 12 volt alt on with my kit for around 100 bucks and have 63 amp draw...Last time i checked equalizers cost alot more than that..My kit installs in about ten minutes for the average person i would think that is pretty easy>>>>>>now in the long run if the equalizer fails it costs big money again if the alt fails it will probably be under warrenty but if not it only hits your pocket for 30 bucks?

 

[mudguppy]

my 100A equalizer cost me $100.

 

[mudguppy]

... My kit installs in about ten minutes for the average person ...

you use 1-wire alternators?

 

[Unforgiven]

To get back to the deep cycle question, a normal car battery is whats called a starting battery, they can provide high current flow for a short time such as engine startup, the problem with being able to deliver a high current flow is they can be damaged severely if you place a small load on them for a long time such as running a few lights until the battery dies. A deep cycle battery (also called a marine battery) allows a repetitive cycles of recharge, drain, recharge, drain, and so on without suffering much damage at all, but like the starting battery has a disadvantage the deep cycle battery has the opposite problem. They are not able to supply a high current flow for things like engine start.

This is a complete myth.

I've been running deep cycle marine batteries in all of my various 4x4's throughout the years since the 1980's.

I have never had any problems starting any engine with marine batteries, even if the batteries are several years old.

Good quality RV/marine batteries will start anything from a lawn mower to a Deuce.

The key is to make sure they are not left for months on end without some trickle charging. Keep the H2O levels topped off or buy the gel based ones.

 

[tm america]

You can use a 1 wire alt with my brackets but you can use a reg alt and loop the main hot to the exciter wire soon as you take it off idea it will start charging..So there really no reason to spend the extra loot for the 1 wire.I personally like the idea of switching the exciter wire so you can turn of the alt if you want

 

[Stalwart]

I'm with TM here, a second 1 wire alternator and battery is probably the best choice. I didn't want to add a second alternator to my 8V92 in the HEMTT. His kit seems like the best solution and you can get a replacement 1 wire alternator anywhere! 2 - one wire alternators (one each of 12V and 24V) seems to me to be the BEST option, in my arrogant opinion.

 

[tm america]

If the price of adding a 12 volt alt with my kit is the same price of buying a equalizer why would you not go with the set up that give you a failproof back up plan and is cheaper to fix if it ever did mess up?The stock decue alt is not the most reliable even when charging just 2 batteries..now what is gonna happen when you ask it to charge another 1 or 2 batteries ..If the stock alt fails you will end up with three or four dead batteries if the 12 volt alt fails with my set up you still get home ..If the 24 volt alt fails with my set up you switch the batteries around and you still get home...

 

[mudguppy]

read all 3 pages and then see if 1-wire alternators are the best option (or wiring a 3-wire alternators to act as 1-wire).



tm america - what's the box part store part number for this $30 alternator?

 

[mudguppy]

If the price of adding a 12 volt alt with my kit is the same price of buying a equalizer why would you not go with the set up that give you a failproof back up plan and is cheaper to fix if it ever did mess up? ...

since you're making an effort to poo-poo the equalizer, what failure mode of the equalizer is lesser than your *for sale* kit?

and what's the failure rate of compared components (equalizer vs China alternator)? since you're making statements, you must know the answer...

 

[DUG]

read all 3 pages and then see if 1-wire alternators are the best option (or wiring a 3-wire alternators to act as 1-wire).



tm america - what's the box part store part number for this $30 alternator?

I can grab you the part number if I still have the box. I think it was 29 or 30 plus a 15 dollar core.

The 24 volt one I used was 123 with no core. It was a one wire. I used the exciter wire off the 24 volt system to turn my 12 volt system on and off via a relay.

It's been a couple months and I couldn't be happier with George's kit. It's cheap enough to have a spare 24 volt one wire alt under the seat. No matter how bad I screw up on the 12 volt side I'm still getting home.

Plus dual alts look kewl.

Works for me anyway, may not suit everyone's needs.

If George doesn't post up the part number tonight I'll look for the box in the morning.

 

[Stalwart]

since you're making an effort to poo-poo the equalizer, what failure mode of the equalizer is lesser than your *for sale* kit?

and what's the failure rate of compared components (equalizer vs China alternator)? since you're making statements, you must know the answer...

Not exactly a piece of garbage, they are quite ruggedly made and come with fuseable links on the battery connections. This is also the model they sell to the US Military as I understand. Not in the same legue as a Chinese alternator with bearings of sand and windings of pot metal.