3126 w/ABS vs 3116

[fuzzytoaster]

Throwing some first hand info into this conversation.. I've gathered solid info direct from Allison about our 3700SP (note not 3070) in the A1R trucks capable of 370 hp. Our units are rated for a sustained 935 lb-ft input and a 370 hp flash to the C7 gives a 928 lb-ft of torque at peak output. The key word above is sustained. The tech I've been working with on big brother transmissions (4500SP, 4700SP, etc) said our units are safe for the input as long as you use the recommend fluid (Transend of course) and keeping it cool. Longevity isn't an issue beyond that and eventual wiring issues due to age.

Caterpillar has commented on the 370 hp factory flash when I spoke to their power division. It's intended for non-highway use as is all of the engines ever put in an FMTV ever. Special contract, licensing, emissions, etc allows for this engine setup to be available for purchase should the military need for a variety of uses including for their arctic cats. The flash file I have has a note called "bearcat" which they didn't know about since they deal with pumps, generators, etc. The Cat library I have is recent and it only goes to 330 hp for the 3126B for our engine serials. Torque was around 865 lb-ft at peak for this engine. Overall you're getting about 63 lb-ft more torque and 40 more hp with a C7 if you max out factory settings.

I enjoyed my M1078A1R @ 370 hp as it would move quick and pull strong. I towed a M989A1 with 11,000 lbs of scrap for a total of about 54,000 lbs combined through some steep hills and she never skipped a beat. The stock 275 hp flash was a let down in comparison but understandably chosen for the quality of the driver and weight of the foot.

 

[Stratosurfer]

I must say I'm leaning toward a C-7 engine A1R truck after discussions with some who own them. I understand the potential failure points of 'intermediate' electronic injector pump tech. I think I can manage the failure points on the C-7 adequately with on-board spares to make all the latest upgrades to the entire platform worth the added electronics and complexity. As well the 370HP and 900 torque seem desirable as well.

 

[TomTime]

I must say I'm leaning toward a C-7 engine A1R truck after discussions with some who own them. I understand the potential failure points of 'intermediate' electronic injector pump tech. I think I can manage the failure points on the C-7 adequately with on-board spares to make all the latest upgrades to the entire platform worth the added electronics and complexity. As well the 370HP and 900 torque seem desirable as well.

Good luck!

 

[Third From Texas]

I must say I'm leaning toward a C-7 engine A1R truck after discussions with some who own them. I understand the potential failure points of 'intermediate' electronic injector pump tech. I think I can manage the failure points on the C-7 adequately with on-board spares to make all the latest upgrades to the entire platform worth the added electronics and complexity. As well the 370HP and 900 torque seem desirable as well.

Yeah, sadly the A1R trucks are pretty scarce. I mean really scarce in comparison (unlike the earlier versions, most seem to still be coveted by guard units and cherry picked by states/organization that get first pick of the good stuff). I won't say unobtainium, but they are rare in comparison. The last A1R M1079 I saw sold (non auction) was asking $50K. I saw a real basket case non-runner A1R on auction go for $25K recently. Not that they aren't worth it, but is it worth the added cost for your needs.

You'll be in heavy contention for it if one comes up. Is it worth paying $10K-35K more than the same condition A1 or even A0? I it really worth it for your project?

I love A1R, but it was a bit of a fluke that I obtained it and pure luck. I consider it a true blessing that I did, but I could have searched for years and never found one I could have afforded.

Just saying, you'll likely pay a premium if that's what you want.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

He's not wrong but IMO the C7 trucks are worth a reasonable markup on the entry price. For one they are rare. Only about 1/5th of the non-LTAS trucks were ever made as A1R C7 trucks. The military still owns quite a few with National Guard and Reserve units so they will continue to trickle out over the next few years.

I paid $43k for my truck with 2750 miles on it a little over a year ago in good enough condition to immediately drive it home 2800 miles. And I could easily get $65k for it with the upgrades, maintenance, and modifications I've done to it - probably more based on what MWME is asking (and apparently getting) for 1079's. But really that's NOT THAT BAD considering you would pay $25 to $35k for an A1R 1078 and then have another $35k+ into a custom habitat and torsion frame which you have to assemble yourself. To have a ready-made habitat that you can immediately utilize was worth it to me to get the 1079. And yeah - can't stress enough how crazy rare they are - I've heard they produced 50x more 1078's than 1079's in general and only a 5th of them would be A1R's. Mine and Third From Texas's are the only one's I know of on this forum.

Even at $50k - have you priced out an Earthroamer? Or even a new F350? Honestly that's just today's pricing and considering MANY of these trucks have less than 10k miles on them - many less than 5k....... it's a brand new truck that the government paid $230k for in 2008 - adjusting for inflation it's a $320k truck in todays dollars - for $50k. It's no wonder people are lining up to pay even these "high" asking prices.

They will also continue to appreciate - consider that these are some of the the LAST and NEWEST US Military trucks that will ever be available and sold to the public. Nothing that's armored like the LTAS FMTV's will ever make it out in one piece. They absolutely MUST be destroyed by government policy. Yes we all know about MWME's A1P2 truck - apparently that was bought directly from Stewart and Stevenson by some local departmental agency - not the DOD - and that's an extreme rare exception - in fact the only one anyone has ever seen in civilian hands I believe. They want a MINT for it and honestly they have pretty terrible ergonomics, are HEAVY AF, terrible visibility with the armored glass installed and that glass has a limited life in actual use - it yellows and fogs and delaminates..... it's honestly terrible and REEEAAAAALLLLLLLYYY F'n expensive.

 

[Third From Texas]

Yes we all know about MWME's A1P2 truck

Yeah, that one doesn't count. Honestly, you couldn't give me one of those cabs (so cramped and shite for visibility).

I was surprised to see it offered by MWME for less than a couple million.

It's totally worth it and in line with their pricing model.

;p

 

[Reworked LMTV]

He's not wrong but IMO the C7 trucks are worth a reasonable markup on the entry price. For one they are rare. Only about 1/5th of the non-LTAS trucks were ever made as A1R C7 trucks. The military still owns quite a few with National Guard and Reserve units so they will continue to trickle out over the next few years.

I paid $43k for my truck with 2750 miles on it a little over a year ago in good enough condition to immediately drive it home 2800 miles. And I could easily get $65k for it with the upgrades, maintenance, and modifications I've done to it - probably more based on what MWME is asking (and apparently getting) for 1079's. But really that's NOT THAT BAD considering you would pay $25 to $35k for an A1R 1078 and then have another $35k+ into a custom habitat and torsion frame which you have to assemble yourself. To have a ready-made habitat that you can immediately utilize was worth it to me to get the 1079. And yeah - can't stress enough how crazy rare they are - I've heard they produced 50x more 1078's than 1079's in general and only a 5th of them would be A1R's. Mine and Third From Texas's are the only one's I know of on this forum.

Even at $50k - have you priced out an Earthroamer? Or even a new F350? Honestly that's just today's pricing and considering MANY of these trucks have less than 10k miles on them - many less than 5k....... it's a brand new truck that the government paid $230k for in 2008 - adjusting for inflation it's a $320k truck in todays dollars - for $50k. It's no wonder people are lining up to pay even these "high" asking prices.

They will also continue to appreciate - consider that these are some of the the LAST and NEWEST US Military trucks that will ever be available and sold to the public. Nothing that's armored like the LTAS FMTV's will ever make it out in one piece. They absolutely MUST be destroyed by government policy. Yes we all know about MWME's A1P2 truck - apparently that was bought directly from Stewart and Stevenson by some local departmental agency - not the DOD - and that's an extreme rare exception - in fact the only one anyone has ever seen in civilian hands I believe. They want a MINT for it and honestly they have pretty terrible ergonomics, are HEAVY AF, terrible visibility with the armored glass installed and that glass has a limited life in actual use - it yellows and fogs and delaminates..... it's honestly terrible and REEEAAAAALLLLLLLYYY F'n expensive.

This is absolutely false. The value of RV's in general will NOT continue to appreciate like this. The market CURRENTLY dove off a cliff and values are dropping like a rock. The market will be flooded with RVs and Off-Road vehicles will be available by the 1000's. 3rd QTR 23 prices for diesel are predicted to exceed the highest prices we have seen to around $8.00 a gallon or more. People will dump these vehicles in droves. There will be some really good buys. Watch feb-mar 2023. Economic blood bath. People will be selling their RV's, ATVs, etc just to keep the lights on and food on the table. Want a MB G Wagon? The inventory of these is exploding right now. Where do I get my data ? I pay for it.

 

[Third From Texas]

This is absolutely false. The value of RV's in general will NOT continue to appreciate like this. The market CURRENTLY dove off a cliff and values are dropping like a rock. The market will be flooded with RVs and Off-Road vehicles will be available by the 1000's. 3rd QTR 23 prices for diesel are predicted to exceed the highest prices we have seen to around $8.00 a gallon or more. People will dump these vehicles in droves. There will be some really good buys. Watch feb-mar 2023. Economic blood bath. People will be selling their RV's, ATVs, etc just to keep the lights on and food on the table. Want a MB G Wagon? The inventory of these is exploding right now. Where do I get my data ? I pay for it.

You guys need to get a room...

The bickering in here reminds me of the Internet.

Take that shit to FB and pick on one of the lame ass admins or something constructive. That's what I do.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Sensational doom and gloom reporting always gets lots of views. It's great for click bait.

Given historic trends that prediction is unlikely.

Diesel price pain seen easing as US EIA lowers 2023 oil, refined product price outlooks

US retail diesel prices are expected to fall next year from the highs seen in 2022 but continue to be relatively high as US distillate inventories remain at or near multi year lows through the end of

www.spglobal.com

.

 

[Third From Texas]

Sensational doom and gloom reporting always gets lots of views. It's great for click bait.

Given historic trends that prediction is unlikely.

Hey, I'm in Texas and know where there are enough wells to make my own fuel if diesel hits $8/gal.

;p

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I must say I'm leaning toward a C-7 engine A1R truck after discussions with some who own them. I understand the potential failure points of 'intermediate' electronic injector pump tech. I think I can manage the failure points on the C-7 adequately with on-board spares to make all the latest upgrades to the entire platform worth the added electronics and complexity. As well the 370HP and 900 torque seem desirable as well.

It sounds good on paper until you actually have one IF you can find one. The ones released have been very few and far between of which most are M1078A1Rs, a good portion of those are rebuilt/repurchased trucks converted from existing M1078"A0"s so quality is so-so. The only two M1085A1Rs I've seen were MWE's $249,999 unit and a P1 prototype in a private collection. A solid A1R would be 50K+ in value easy if it's all functional and there. The price and support for A1Rs is where it bites the owner. The TM's for the A1R are ETMs (electronic) and classified for public distribution. The PDP (passenger kick panel/circuit breaker area) is completely different than all previous trucks. The hard point cab aka no air bags does make for a "sturdier" ride. The dash cluster is controled by a central module, not independent gauges like all previous models, which are not currently sourceable. The trucks can be powerful but at what expense is it worth to you?

 

[Third From Texas]

The hard point cab aka no air bags does make for a "sturdier" ride. Etc. They can be powerful but at what expense is it worth to you?

True that. And again emphasis on "IF you can find one".

But oddly, there is something about the cab ride that is more quiet and smooth.. The impact of potholes and road bumps feels far less noticeable on my A1R going down the same street in my A0. The A1R seats did away with the steel plate that are 1" from your ass in the A0 trucks, for starters (they are more "suspension seat" as a result because your ass isn't hitting steel plate with every hiccup). And the A0 cab rests on each side squeak like an ANTIFA member dropped off by rednecks at a biker rally.

But honestly, not having to worry about airbags and leaks and a hundred other components involved in the cab suspension system of the A0/A1 trucks is sort of a blessing. Cab air ride is a neat function for sure, but it comes with a million moving parts to fail. I miss it only because it was fun to watch the cab self adjust in the mornings, but I wound's install it in a truck that didn't have it.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Having ridden in all versions....... I prefer the HEMTTA4's. They ride like a Cadillac.

But seriously the A1R gets all this flak for the lack of an air ride cab and honestly you just don't notice this significantly in practice. The addition of the suspension seats and generally people buying these will probably consider even better seats like the Mastercraft Tactical seats (which are the same as the A1P2 uses) that will further make this irrelevant.

The A1R is perfectly serviceable on the comfort level front - assuming you aren't some Karen that needs it to ride smooth enough to do your makeup. If you are then please leave this forum you don't belong here.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

It sounds good on paper until you actually have one IF you can find one. The ones released have been very few and far between of which most are M1078A1Rs, a good portion of those are rebuilt/repurchased trucks converted from existing M1078"A0"s so quality is so-so. The only two M1085A1Rs I've seen were MWE's $249,999 unit and a P1 prototype in a private collection. A solid A1R would be 50K+ in value easy if it's all functional and there. The price and support for A1Rs is where it bites the owner. The TM's for the A1R are ETMs (electronic) and classified for public distribution. The PDP (passenger kick panel/circuit breaker area) is completely different than all previous trucks. The hard point cab aka no air bags does make for a "sturdier" ride. The dash cluster is controled by a central module, not independent gauges like all previous models, which are not currently sourceable. The trucks can be powerful but at what expense is it worth to you?

I think in some respects you may be confusing the A1R with the A1P2. Totally different animals. MWME has an A1P2 LTAS for sale at $250k..... I have seen no A1R's for sale in this price range.

The TM's are absolutely available. Just PM me and I can get you anything you need. In another thread I alluded to the fact that these TM's are included in the ICE diagnostic kit that is currently all over ebay for $200 to $400 - the CD's with all the TM's are typically still sealed and included in these kits. So clearly not "classified" in the sense you mean. The DOD clearly doesn't give a fast flying **** about these TM's.

The MMDC (Medallion Marine Data Concentrator) is often available cheap on ebay. I have half a dozen spares I bought for like $35 each - there was an easily fixed design flaw with board mounted pressure transducers that has produced a lot of "spares" that simply need the transducers for front and rear air tank pressure replaced and will work fine.

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I think in some respects you may be confusing the A1R with the A1P2. Totally different animals. MWME has an A1P2 LTAS for sale at $250k..... I have seen no A1R's for sale in this price range.

The TM's are absolutely available. Just PM me and I can get you anything you need. In another thread I alluded to the fact that these TM's are included in the ICE diagnostic kit that is currently all over ebay for $200 to $400 - the CD's with all the TM's are typically still sealed and included in these kits. So clearly not "classified" in the sense you mean. The DOD clearly doesn't give a fast flying **** about these TM's.

The MMDC (Medallion Marine Data Concentrator) is often available cheap on ebay. I have half a dozen spares I bought for like $35 each - there was an easily fixed design flaw with board mounted pressure transducers that has produced a lot of "spares" that simply need the transducers for front and rear air tank pressure replaced and will work fine.

MWME is a A1P2 LTAS converted from an A1R. The sister M1089A1P2 model sold on ebay a few years ago that came from the same program destined for an oversea country but didn't make it. They were all A1Rs and converted to order and I know because I inquired about them and their very minty batch of Saudi HMMWVs that eventually went up for sale on GovLiquidation back in the day. The Sealy plant isn't far from me so you meet interesting people and see interesting things. Technically that unit MWME has is the only M1085A1R I've seen in person even if cab swapped. Getting deeper into into it is semantics. It's dang near the only one legally in private possession besides the prototype P1.

I'm the seller of the STE-ICE kits on ebay and literally have 24 more in my garage. All were inventoried in 2014 and CD's removed for demil. Now you're right in that things can be acquired with dedication but that doesn't negate it's literally illegal for distribution. I can't condone that despite the bass-ackwards the situation is since we can acquire the trucks legally.
Do share the part numbers for the MMDC. Having spares, especially cheap good spares, is always nice!

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Why would they demil them with the included CD's and manuals if they are illegal to distribute?

And in any case doesn't that pretty much invalidate their distribution restriction? That shit is literally everywhere. I don't see how they can claim it's classified now.......

I'm happy to give it to anyone that needs it.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

You guys need to get a room...

The bickering in here reminds me of the Internet.

Take that shit to FB and pick on one of the lame ass admins or something constructive. That's what I do.

Hey, I'm in Texas and know where there are enough wells to make my own fuel if diesel hits $8/gal.

;p

You guys need to get a room...

The bickering in here reminds me of the Internet.

Take that shit to FB and pick on one of the lame ass admins or something constructive. That's what I do.

I just

Sensational doom and gloom reporting always gets lots of views. It's great for click bait.

Given historic trends that prediction is unlikely.

Diesel price pain seen easing as US EIA lowers 2023 oil, refined product price outlooks

US retail diesel prices are expected to fall next year from the highs seen in 2022 but continue to be relatively high as US distillate inventories remain at or near multi year lows through the end of

www.spglobal.com

.

Sensational doom and gloom reporting always gets lots of views. It's great for click bait.

Given historic trends that prediction is unlikely.

Diesel price pain seen easing as US EIA lowers 2023 oil, refined product price outlooks

US retail diesel prices are expected to fall next year from the highs seen in 2022 but continue to be relatively high as US distillate inventories remain at or near multi year lows through the end of

www.spglobal.com

.

Sensational doom and gloom reporting always gets lots of views. It's great for click bait.

Given historic trends that prediction is unlikely.

Diesel price pain seen easing as US EIA lowers 2023 oil, refined product price outlooks

US retail diesel prices are expected to fall next year from the highs seen in 2022 but continue to be relatively high as US distillate inventories remain at or near multi year lows through the end of

www.spglobal.com

.

Must have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night..

 

[Reworked LMTV]

You guys need to get a room...

The bickering in here reminds me of the Internet.

Take that shit to FB and pick on one of the lame ass admins or something constructive. That's what I do.

What the moral of the story here? Never debate with a guy who sleeps on top of his engine dyno

 

[Reworked LMTV]

You guys need to get a room...

The bickering in here reminds me of the Internet.

Take that shit to FB and pick on one of the lame ass admins or something constructive. That's what I do.

Hey, I'm in Texas and know where there are enough wells to make my own fuel if diesel hits $8/gal.

;p

You guys need to get a room...

The bickering in here reminds me of the Internet.

Take that shit to FB and pick on one of the lame ass admins or something constructive. That's what I do.

I just

Sensational doom and gloom reporting always gets lots of views. It's great for click bait.

Given historic trends that prediction is unlikely.

Diesel price pain seen easing as US EIA lowers 2023 oil, refined product price outlooks

US retail diesel prices are expected to fall next year from the highs seen in 2022 but continue to be relatively high as US distillate inventories remain at or near multi year lows through the end of

www.spglobal.com

.

Good li

Sensational doom and gloom reporting always gets lots of views. It's great for click bait.

Given historic trends that prediction is unlikely.

Diesel price pain seen easing as US EIA lowers 2023 oil, refined product price outlooks

US retail diesel prices are expected to fall next year from the highs seen in 2022 but continue to be relatively high as US distillate inventories remain at or near multi year lows through the end of

www.spglobal.com

.

Unfortunately historical trends are historical. These are most helpful in stable times. We are in very unstable times where bad players are attempting to raise the price of fuel to suite their political game. The sabotage of the NG pipeline comes to mind.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

It's always "unstable" - has been for decades. Stability doesn't have enough divisive issues associated with it for proper "control". Keeping people divided over "divisive issues" is HOW they maintain control. Isn't is curious that almost every issue, every measure, every party, every vote is ALMOST EXACTLY SPLIT 50/50? Why do you suppose that is? It's so the one's with the power (mostly money) can place their pinky on the scales and with very little effort (usually a few tens of millions of dollars of "advertising") can tip the scales in whichever direction is most advantageous to their ends. Without division control would not be possible and stability is never truly possible where you have a population split down the middle at each others throats all the time.

It's all smoke and mirrors and misdirection. But they won't collapse the economy by raising diesel prices that high - they need the buying power of the masses and that's not how you get it. They will drill, they will refine, because it must be done to keep the status quo and keep the division they require to maintain control.