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$4 a gallon!

maddawg308

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RE: Fuel Exploring!

Here's the thing, beaubeau - the punishment for War Profiteering is still death by hanging. This includes jacking up the price of commodities such as oil during a time of war. Last I checked, we were at war. So, add it all up, how come some oil execs and politicians aren't getting hung? I'd pay to see that show....
 

swbradley1

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RE: Fuel Exploring!

[rant]

That would be all well and good to blame the oil companies but I prefer to look at it differently.

The oil companies profit from a gallon of gas is about 6-8 cents/gal. Let's say we double that just to make sure that we can really blame them for their massive profits.

How much does the government get per gallon? Around here it's about 50 cents. (I could be off either way so YMMV)

Why blame a company that is turning out a product that we need for a profit? I don't believe that they are gouging consumers (although it may seem that way sometimes). Does anyone honestly think that gas only costs 25 cents a gallon and this is some big conspiracy for the oil companies to charge $3.50/gallon??

Really?

If you have to blame someone (and I know you want to) how about putting right squarely where it belongs, on the congress people who will not allow drilling in Alaska, California or off the coast of Florida. They put so many regulations on refineries that it is too expensive to build one so we have shortages. If you have a shortage of anything that people want what happens? The price goes up.

Add that to the idiotic idea that Ethanol would be a good idea and then you drive up food prices. It takes more gasoline to produce a gallon of Ethanol than you get in Ethanol. Perfect logical thinking there isn't it.

Methanol would be a better solution since you can produce Methanol with a Methanol fuel cell (you can do a little research) and it is quite a bit more economical than Ethanol.

[/rant]
 

madsam

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I thought last year, Bush asked congress to suspend the subsidizing of oil companies. Did it not happen?
 

amanco

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Why would any oil company want to drill new wells and build new refineries when they are getting $109+ for a barrel of oil and the demand has no end in sight?
ExxonMobil's profits for 2005 was 36 Billion. They have absolutely no incentive to make fuel affordable. They will only sell for 100% of what the market will bare and laugh all the way to the bank. That is it plain and simple. There is no concern for the western dependency on foreign oil or efforts to curtail that dependency. For every gallon that you don't buy, some one in China will! It is a world market that we have no control over.
 

clinto

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I don't think ANWR is the answer to all our prayers…… here are some various tidbits from all over the web.

The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates that if the green light is given it would take 7 to 12 years to sell leases, do permitting, environmental reviews, etc. and that initial production could start in 2010 at the earliest. Assuming an optimistic scenario in which the mean expected technically recoverable oil in the entire coastal plain (not just the 1002 area) - 10.3 billion barrels - could be completely recovered (i.e. ignoring market pricing) the EIA estimates production of 600 million barrels a year. In comparison, US daily consumption is 18.5 million barrels a day, or 6,752 million barrels a year. Thus in this scenario ANWR, once on tap, would provide less than 9% of US annual usage (given that usage is trending upward..). Assuming a less positive scenario, at a market price of $24/barrel the mean estimated commercially recoverable oil is 5.2 billion barrels, and since the oil is in multiple plays rather than one large play the costs of exploiting the oil will be higher.

Source:

http://www.sibelle.info/oped15.htm *

Now, here are the findings from the USGS study:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0028-01/fs-0028-01.htm


Beware, it’s a lot of reading.

Ultimately, as much as I would love to believe that drilling in ANWR would lower the price of oil/diesel/gas, it won't (not appreciably). If gas is $3.50 a gallon and it goes down $.05, that's only something like 1.3%.

And, let's assume for a minute that it dramatically lowers gas prices. Let's say (for the sake of discussion, because in reality there's no way it would happen) that drilling in ANWR decreases gas prices 20%.

What do we do when we have exhausted all the economically feasible oil in ANWR?

It's time to look past oil, to a future of renewable energy sources. Things like solar, hydro, etc. Yes, a lot of research is required. The return (power generated) by things like windmills and solar panels needs to increase multifold. That will only come with time and $ (which will happen with the massive increases in the price of oil).


And I don't think we can exclusively blame the treehuggers for the lack of refineries being built. As another poster above said it so well, why would they build refineries? That would be self defeating. A larger supply would theoretically lower the price.

There have been a few media reports over the last few years about refineries that were profitable being shut down. A whistleblower who worked at one of these was fired and then sued by the company, after he came out and admitted it was one of the most profitable refineries in the company.

Another revelation was a leaked internal document in which an oil industry exec basically said "we have to limit the amount of refining capacity if we ever hope to get good prices for gas".

This stuff got some minor play in the media, but it didn't go far, for obvious reasons. The media takes in millions upon millions of advertising dollars from the oil industry and they might just be biting the hand that feeds them if they are too critical.

Here are a couple of fun articles about profitable refineries being closed:

http://questionsquestions.net/docs04/refinery.html

http://www.lacitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/?id=958&IssueNum=52


Let's also not forget speculation on the cost of a barrel of oil and the weak dollar.



*That article is 6 years old, the statistics are good as well as the charts but the prices are out of whack. They mention $30 barrels of oil……gee, wish my income had risen 300% in 6 years. :roll:
 
Awh Heck, you'll look back and think $4 a gallon was real bargain.
A customer of mine just left my shop. He went to Death Valley and Panamint Springs here in the Mojave Desert of California last weekend . . . . . . . . .


Gas was $5.35 a gallon there!!!! :shock: :shock: I'll bet it is the same in Baker (home to the worlds largest thermometer) on I-15 on the way to Las Vegas from LA.
 

maddawg308

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One of the big oil execs a year back or so (Exxon I believe) in an interview on TV on one of the news programs, was talking about rising profits vs. increasing cost of oil and oil products to consumers. His response was basically this: simple supply and demand. You want the gas? You pay for it. You want the price to go down? Don't travel / buy as much. Nothing more than that.

You know, when you think about it, he does have a point. It's expensive because we are going to pay it until we buy less.

I am doing my best to conserve on this end, taking less trips to town, getting more done in one trip than previous, etc. It's still better than the old days - you know, when you had to get the horse from the field, hitch up the wagon, ride the 10-20 miles to town, do your stuff and ride back. Lots of work, and took all day long. We're still better off than our ancestors in that respect...
 
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I wonder how much the fuel prices are going to affect travel to various MV shows this year? In the Detroit area we are really fortunate to have a lot of local events this year. I will be planning on staying closer to home most likely.
 

Kwai

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Regarding Alaskan oil being shipped other places than the US, it does happen and it makes economic sense. It is much cheaper to ship alaskan crude to Asia and for Gulf Coast refiners to get their crude from Mexico and South America than to ship Alaskan crude all the way to the Gulf Coast. If California didn't have such ridiculous laws more oil could be found and refined in California. There is a reason that California leads the US in fuel prices.
 

Kwai

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Why would any oil company want to drill new wells and build new refineries when they are getting $109+ for a barrel of oil and the demand has no end in sight?
Oil companies are searching and drilling for oil constantly. Oil wells don't produce indefinitely. Oil Production from each well can decline pretty rapidly in the first couple of years of production, maybe 50-80%. For a oil company to keep producing the same volume oil it must constantly explore and drill for oil, this is what is commonly referred to as "proven reserves". For ExxonMobil, this is the first year in it's history hasn't replace all the oil it produced, mainly because the gov't of Venezuela took over all of ExxonMobil's assets in the country.

At $109/bbl it is even more attractive to go after harder to reach oil (more expensive to produce). The oil rigs in the North Sea and Gulf of Mexico cost billions of dollars to develop and operate.

New refineries aren't being built because of the environmental laws passed in this country make it less expensive to refine it somewhere else where the laws are friendlier and transport the refined gasoline and diesel to the US.
 

Kwai

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And don't forget that the recent rise in fuel prices from $90-$110/bbl is due to the drop in the value of the dollar relative to the rest of the world and not an actual increase in the price of oil.
 

offroaddiesel

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4.25 in my area for diesel maines average is over 4 a gallon. i still belive we still have some control over this . some people just need to grow some ---. steve in maine
 

ken

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I'm not quite sure i agree with oil companies only making 6 to 8 cents a gallon profit. I worked in a refinery here on the houston ship channel for 7 years. There are a few plants who have wells inside the fence. These wells have been producing for decades. It doesent cost them any more to get this oil than it did years ago. But they do get to sell the product for alot more!
 

bottleworks

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Re: RE: Fuel Exploring!

maddawg308 said:
...the punishment for War Profiteering is still death by hanging. This includes jacking up the price of commodities such as oil during a time of war. Last I checked, we were at war. So, add it all up, how come some oil execs and politicians aren't getting hung?
Convict George Bush. But he will some how pardon himself, or say that the patriot act allows him to help the oil companies make higher profits!
 
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