900 and 800 winches the same?

[wehring]

Except for the hydro power vs PTO power are the 800 series and 900 series winches and extensions the same? I have an 818 PTO winch kit I want to put on an M931A2 BMY and convert it to hydro power.

What say you RKIs?

Justin

 

[steelsoldiers]

I believe the winches are the same. I have looked closely at a winch mounted on a 809-series and it looks identical to a 939-series. I don't know for sure about the frame extensions.

 

[DaveP]

the input shaft bearing retainer on the rear is different to recieve the coupler between the case and the hyd motor. atleast thats the difference on the one i got off from a 900 something bridge truck. the rest of it looks the same.

 

[steelsoldiers]

I have winch motor adapter envy. I can't wait to get my new one so I can get the motor mounted and test the winch system.

 

[Alredneck]

Man if only I had a 900 series! One day once things get caught up and im legally single again!

One note are the big 40-45ks for the rear drag winch on the wrecker designed to be hyd setup as well. I have one im mounting on a 814, it will have the regular 20k pto front but I think it would be easier to mock up a hyd unit for the rear drag winch. The pto is a transmission mounted double ended unit but im looking for ease of use and parts compatablity.

 

[Bunkerbuilder]

I saw the pics of that adapter as well and feel the same way. I have been meaning to get to the machine shop and have one made to fit my rear mounted 20K LB Braden winch.

Have everything else just need that adapter made.

I have winch motor adapter envy. I can't wait to get my new one so I can get the motor mounted and test the winch system.

 

[73m819]

id like to mount a hyd. #20000 winch in the frame under the fifth wheel on the 819 and move the guide rollers to the very rear, since the 819 already has hyds, this would be a simple mod.

 

[DaveP]

id like to mount a hyd. #20000 winch in the frame under the fifth wheel on the 819, since the 819 already has hyds, this would be a simple mod.

I have been thinking somewhat along this same line.

 

[Csm Davis]

the 45 on the rear is the same but has a diffrent sprocket I know because I have pulled both side by side

 

[Csm Davis]

most big winches are all the same just use diffrent means of driving them

 

[powerhouseduece]

Since we are on the Topic, anyone know the specs. on the Hydro motor and pump? Im going to try and mount my pipeline rack and 20k lbs winch on the rear of my 818. I just need to find out what size pump and motor to run.

 

[Bunkerbuilder]

Ill dig out the pics of my pump and motor this weekend.

The motor is a CHAR-LYNN by Eaton.
Great Lakes Fluid Power

The pump is a Chelsea or maybe a muncie.


Will look for the model numbers tonight.

I picked up a few things here for my winch setup on my CUCV.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

Since we are on the Topic, anyone know the specs. on the Hydro motor and pump? Im going to try and mount my pipeline rack and 20k lbs winch on the rear of my 818. I just need to find out what size pump and motor to run.

 

[dragonman]

Since we are on the Topic, anyone know the specs. on the Hydro motor and pump? Im going to try and mount my pipeline rack and 20k lbs winch on the rear of my 818. I just need to find out what size pump and motor to run.

Anybody have the specs on these and where to get the adapter.
Thank you

 

[Bunkerbuilder]

The adapter came from the same outfit as the PTO Ill get a pic of the box it came in the part # should be on it.

It was the aluminum adapter to swap out with the bearing retainer that was on the PTO originally and a new shaft and gaskets.

BRB going out with camera and flashlight into the depths of the basement.

The number on the box flap (nope I didnt throw it out, I dont seem to throw out anything) is 328591-16X also on the flap as to brand is Chelsea <DANA> power take off component part.

Google search using the above part#.
328591-16X Chelsea <DANA> - Google Search=

ETA: the parts in the pic are the parts that were replaced by the parts that were in the box IE the adaptor shaft has internal splines to fit the hyd pump, From memory the shaft was 7/8 13 spline.

dragonman, where to get the adapter would depend on your location.

A local Chelsea dealer would be your best bet IMO.
ETA2: looks like Parker bought out Chelsea or Chelsea Dana.

Maybe ebay if your into that.

Here is a look at one of the hits from that Google search.
Page 19 of S & S Truck Parts, Inc. of the catalog PTO Catalog

Anybody have the specs on these and where to get the adapter.
Thank you

 

[steelsoldiers]

Here are some photos of my hydraulic motor from my M925A2. As mentioned before, it is a Char-Lynn pump by Eaton. The Char-Lynn P/N on my tag is 109-1094-004 or 11669777 in military format. The Char-Lynn number listed in the TM is 109-1094-106 or NSN 4320011376293. The last three digits of the Char-Lynn numbers are the engineering change number. Neither P/N comes up in the Char-Lynn system. Big surprise. The 109-1094 will get some hits though.

The adapter used on the M939/A1/A2 trucks can be purchased brand new at Onidi Engineering for $199/piece. Onodi Tool & Engineering Company :: Mevlindale, MI I am having a machine shop make one using the military specs and pieces of my old one. I'll let you know how it turns out.

There is a manual online for the Char-Lynn motors. It is a great resource for tearing one apart and getting it back together. http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/07-118.pdf

So, on a related note, should I be able to easily spin the shaft on my hydraulic motor by hand or by using a strap wrench? If so, then my motor may be locked up inside. I would bet it happened via water intrusion and rust formation if it is like the rest of my truck. I will probably tear it apart using the manual and see what it looks like inside. Thoughts?

 

[jwaller]

I would bet it should turn pretty easily via hand or strap.

 

[dragonman]

steelsoldier do you have a part number for the adapter?

The adapter used on the M939/A1/A2 trucks can be purchased brand new at Onidi Engineering for $199/piece. Onodi Tool & Engineering Company :: Mevlindale, MI I am having a machine shop make one using the military specs and pieces of my old one. I'll let you know how it turns out.



I called Onidi and he needs a part number or N.S.N. to look up the part.
Do you have a number for the pump?
What size are the ports on the pump and motor?

Your motor should turn with the strap wrench or by hand.

 

[rwoods]

"So, on a related note, should I be able to easily spin the shaft on my hydraulic motor by hand or by using a strap wrench? If so, then my motor may be locked up inside. I would bet it happened via water intrusion and rust formation if it is like the rest of my truck. I will probably tear it apart using the manual and see what it looks like inside. Thoughts? "

I purchased a NOS 19 cid Eaton motor off the web for my 5 ton winch ($250). It appears new in all aspects, but I was unable to turn it by hand. I was relieved to find when I installed it that I could rotate it against the force of the winch so I am assuming it is okay but it does take some effort to turn it. It'll will be some time before I can actually test it, but I believe this is the nature of the beasts ... I have two tiny aircraft motors and they are very difficult to turn by hand but they will spin as designed at very high rpms when hooked up.

For those interested I was able to find only one supplier who would quote the 109-1094 but it was $700; most do not even list it. I believe it is a 17 cid motor. The closest stocked motors are 15 or 19. I went with the 19 based upon advice from Southeastern in Augusta Ga as this is the size they use. Ron

 

[southdave]

I have pile PTO if you all need them

 

[runk]

hydraulic motor turn by hand ?

It is fairly unlikely (unless the motor is really small or one of the high speed ones) that you would be able to turn a hydraulic motor by hand. I used to fully understand why, but its been pushed out of my brain by other stuff, but they are basically backwards positive displacement pumps and the fluid opens and closes internal passages to keep them rotating in one direction, and not stalling when both exhaust and intake ports are open at once. An air compressing motor can get away with closing off rotor cavities and allowing some compression or expansion. Hydraulic fluid doesn't compress, so you can't have any point where a cavity is changing volume without a port open (think hydrolock in an engine ). Some of the larger Char-lynn motors require a separate case drain with certain amount of back pressure for the actuation of the internal timing valves. There is a ton of technical info at:
Eaton Product Literature Library > Hydraulic Components > Motors > Char-Lynn Geroler/Geroter Motors: Spool Valve
although the site is poorly organized and it can be challenging to decode the part numbers and figure out which manual or catalog you need (the catalogs have lots of tech data as well.)
Be careful opening up one of these motors, while the main fluid path is generally tolerant of some contamination, there are high pressure sealing surfaces that will leak if you get any (microscopic) scratches on them. Even the offshore techs I knew with the experience to open these were crazy about cleanliness when working on one.