+/- A3 vs A2 Comments!

[m16ty]

I think this is why people put up the dead horse smiley.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/general-polls/48649-buying-m35a2-m35a3.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/46364-m35-a2-vs-m35-a3-whichn-better.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/conversations/33433-m35a2-vs-m35a3-vs-5-ton.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/32572-m35a3-m35a2.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/4642-difference-between-a1-a2-a3.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

 

[bulldog_mack13]

Yeah doing that search thing or research is crazy aint it?

 

[ALFA2]

Everything else being equal, the A2 is much more user friendly, can be fixed by non dealer mechanic or owner, A3 not so much if engine, trans, or CTIS systems break, or need parts.
Title and registration on a A2 is usually historic or antique capable, and so is the insurance, being cheaper as an option, A3 depending on rebuild build date, not so much...
Looks, parts and support for A2 is everywhere, so is the experience to use fix and maintain the same, not so much for the A3.
All of the desireable features listed in the A3 category within reason can be obtained and without special knowlege or cumputerized tools and equipment added as $ and time allows to the A2, not the other way around. There even have been several atempts to convert or simply fy the Ctis system, to do away with the troublesome computer, in favor of manual control valves, as was previously discused on this site.
Starting cost is noticeably cheaper in favor of the A2.
Allison auto is a nice touch, but the Cat motor in the A3 is picky and expensive to fix and maintain, and not nearly as forgiving to operator errors as the Multifuel is.
At some point someone here will find a way to put a non computer Auto trans into an A2, and maybe already have done so.
Hope it helps.

ALFA2

 

[clinto]

I think this is why people put up the dead horse smiley.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/general-polls/48649-buying-m35a2-m35a3.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/46364-m35-a2-vs-m35-a3-whichn-better.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/conversations/33433-m35a2-vs-m35a3-vs-5-ton.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/32572-m35a3-m35a2.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/4642-difference-between-a1-a2-a3.html?highlight=M35A2+M35A3

Thank you m16ty, I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

I was going to do that but every time I do, people just ignore the links and continue the discussion.

All you guys that keep covering the same ground over and and over and over and over and over and over again are going to force us to start merging threads. If 2 entirely identical threads exist, they are going to get merged or one is going to get deleted.

 

[militarysteel]

Sometimes threads are not so easyly searchable but thx anyways this thread is and you post includes good links thx. Nothing wrong with a little cross ref

 

[jpinst]

I have an A3 and it is multifuel. also, just did the book maintenance on it, and only cost a few hundred for some filters, etc. CTIS worked when I got it and still works now. Love it! Yo gotta figure the rebuild program was to add another 10 years to the truck and was a go between leaving up the the LMTV, which I think shares some parts.

 

[bulldog_mack13]

I have just put mine up for a real quick cheap sale if anyone wants to make the jump into one. - After fixing it all up its sucks the fun outta it and I found another toy id like to buy - Jay

 

[ken326@yahoo.com]

is it still for sale if so how much?

 

[saddamsnightmare]

April 11th, 2010.

I've stayed out of this thread pretty much.... If you can't drive a manual transmission that sometimes borders on ideosyncratic, the A-3 is the way to go. However, my esteemed friend up above here, Bulldog Mack 13, has owned both classes of trucks, A-2 and A-3, so he has a place to stand on this subject. For myself, I have thought of an A-3 now and then (rarely), but cost and that nasty CAT engine would do it for me, plus the CTIS is often erratic and unreliable.... HOW many of us have seen A-3's with the CTIS disconnected or shut down/disabled?
The A-3 has it's points, bulletproof it ain't, whereas there are many stories of A-2's limping in after combat or road damage which could be repaired and the vehicle sent back up front... As they used to say on the railroad, money talks and b------t walks, and I haven't got the money to either buy or maintain an A3 with CAT....
If I had the money and had hit the lottery big... probably one of the TATRA or Mercedes Benz 6X6 or 8X8's would be the way to go, or at least a Unimog U1300L (which is more reasonable in price, much more capable in rough terrain then either the M35A2 or A3), because they generally rate as "bulletproof" and easy to maintain, for modern trucks. FMTV... forgeddaboutit, they aren't going to be maintainable when they are approaching 50 years of age or use... guaranteed!.

Just my opinion, and Jay will tell you that his old M35A2 in my icon, gets run many more miles per year then most M35 series trucks owned and used by members of this site, 4500 to 6500 with just routine oil changes, greasing and inspections. I want to see just how long a normall aspirated multifuel will run before the next overhaul, as the last one was in 1990 before Desert Storm, and she now has over 30,000+ miles on her and counting....


Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

N.B>: I didn't know a CAT could burn gasoline, gear oil and other odd hydrocarbons.... It should be worth the price of admission to see what she does when fed 24-25% gasoline daily as part of her fuel mixture..... BUT then, possibly the computer can compensate...?

 

[Csm Davis]

non cat a3?

I have an A3 and it is multifuel. also, just did the book maintenance on it, and only cost a few hundred for some filters, etc. CTIS worked when I got it and still works now. Love it! Yo gotta figure the rebuild program was to add another 10 years to the truck and was a go between leaving up the the LMTV, which I think shares some parts.

tell us more about this strange beast of yours, did you or the military rip out the cat motor?

 

[militarysteel]

 

[mudguppy]

... bulletproof it ain't, whereas there are many stories of A-2's limping in after combat or road damage which could be repaired and the vehicle sent back up front...

exactly what 'road' or 'combat' damage could the A2 sustain that the A3 could not?

... BUT then, possibly the computer can compensate...?

what computer are you refering to?

 

[militarysteel]

exactly what 'road' or 'combat' damage could the A2 sustain that the A3 could not?

in a combat situation, a automatic trans cooler or lines mounted in the front could get hit with a bullet, inter cooler could get hit with a bullet, ctis could fail, but then again a tire getting hit with a bullet with ctis could make it stay inflated. and over all any bullet in the front could cause issues if it hits the liquid to air heat exchanger for the engine. if i was in combat i think i would prefer a m35a2, but that is just a thought.



what computer are you refering to?

the computer going bad might not kill the engine, i hear its still mechanical injection.

 

[lonegunman]

What computer? I've been looking all over and can't seem to find one, not even a little one. CTIS has an "OFF" switch that renders it moot or if it works it actually fills up tires with bullet holes. Radiator hits work the same for all trucks and the military actually calculates how long engines can run with cooling systems failures.

As far as some sort of "engine computer", I'm at a loss there. The Cat is a mechanical injection engine and does not appear to require electricity to operate anything on it.

If the power steering fails, it works like manual steering. If the CTIS fails, you shut it off and do tires the old fashioned way. The -10 has a lot of good info on what to do when it breaks and you gotta go somewhere now.

Now the electric wipers cannot be operated by hand like the air powered wipers in the A2, that might be a problem if they fail during monsoon season.

As far as the trans, it is tough for an automatic, but not bullet proof. The amazing thing is that most young people cannot drive a manual, much less steer the hard way.

I doubt anything currently built will be as electronic or computer free as the M35 series.

 

[Skycop]

I will agree with most of these posts and the biggest statement regarding the bazillions of threads out there comparing these two vehicles. However, if you have a ? about either please feel free to PM or e-mail me. We are getting rid of our A2 because we have an A3 and need the auto tranny and air assist steering for what we use it for.

The only addition I have to what has already been said is the hydraulic winch up front (it was mentioned, but not in detail). You have alot more flexibility over the winch and its use due to the A3 setup vs the clutch driven PTO in the A2.

I will agree in there is also more stuff to break (CTIS...air assist steering etc), but being the way the -A3 was made systems can be shut off/down without much ill effect if needed.

Finally, the bad wrap on the maint. issues.......parts for the -A3 are hard to find (or they can be at least) and are BY FAR more expensive than -A2 parts. The good news is that you can find them, and because of the CAT engine and Allison tranny, you can even find some of the interchangeable parts for these two items at a local big rig shop or mechanic...at least they can have access to them. It may take some looking, but that can potentially mean some savings on the parts cost.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

April 5th, 2010.

The Army managed to get a clean running diesel in the A-3 without a microprocessor? Most mechanics will tell you that on any piece of heavy machinery, sophistication = trouble in harsh operational environments. Ferro can chime in here if he wishes.... From my experience in the railroad and construction businesses, we had fewer problems with pre electronic and pre computerized machinery, and if they went down for anything short of a major mechanical failure, we could usually rig them to get them home.
Example: EMD GP-9 1750 HP road diesel, all relays and a few fuses. If a GP-9 transition relay failed to work (this relay allows the engine to pull at above 17MPH approximate speed), we could, with a pen knife, whittle a wedge out of the end of a flagmans flag staff. When the engine hit 17MPH in accelleration, the trick was to shut the throttle off, wedge the transition relay contacts closed, then open the throttle and the engine would continue to pull and accellerate. ONE did have to remember to pull the wedge on deaccelleration at 17MPH by shutting the throttle and pulling out the wedge to de transition to series.
The 1960's White Constructor dumptrucks we had were very similar to the deuce, except they had cab heaters, and very rarely did they ever act up in extremely rough and dirty steel mill service.... We had M135 and M211's that also worked in those environments untill the engines were ready to fall out of the truck due to wear and tear.... There is merit to the KISS principle in military applications, unfortunately our brass loves the high tech stuff, and sometimes the GI pays for it..... An M38 or M35 will do just what an HMMWV of FMTV will do, they just cost too little to be sexy. I have yet to see these modern vehicles take to up armoring without loosing the load carrying capacity. A 13,000 LB armored HMMWV weighs as much as an empty deuce, but it can carry very little cargo in that situation and the axles, transmissions and engines fail at a preposterous rate.... A 20,000 LB armored deuce still has some road weight available for cargo, a five ton would have more.....
Let's see how many M35A3's are still going unmodified at 37 years after build... My M35A2 is still working with very minor aches and pains, all easily correctible for very little money (much less then the service by CAT on the 3116), and for a coupla services on that CAT engine, I could drop a rebuilt Multifuel in the deuce outta a can.... I might have the chance (barely) to be around and counting at that time!

Just my .o2 worth, so don't get ruffled up,

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[Flyingvan911]

I heard a guy say that he learned to drive when he was in the Army. He learned on a stick and the guy training him just had to say,"if you grind those gears again, I'll PT you 'til your arms fall off."

 

[m16ty]

exactly what 'road' or 'combat' damage could the A2 sustain that the A3 could not?

While it's not likely either of these two things could get damaged without damaging the radiator also but the A3 could have trans cooler or intercooler damage that a A2 cannot.

 

[rwoods]

I won't enter the fray over which is best because I know next to nothing about the A2 (except what the A3 shares with it) and I know only slighty more about the A3. But it seems that every time the A3 or the Cat or the Allison comes up on this site, there are numerous negative comments about it being computer controlled. For all I know it is, but darn if I know where the computer(s) is or how it is connected to an electrical source (other than the CTIS)*. I would really appreciate it if someone knows for a fact that the engine or the transmission is computer governed would tell us where the computer is and how it is connected. Ron

* Much is said about the CTIS but in my opinion it is irrelevant to the discussions because it is so easily disabled -push a button if its an electronic issue. Put on a valve stem if you want to mechanically eliminate it. And if it actually works its better than not having it. The one CTIS related issue that is fair to compare is the A3 wheel and tire setup versus the A2's. I can see pros and cons to both but I done feel qualified to say which is best because it probably depends upon your use.

 

[mudguppy]

the engine and trans is mechanically operated, not computer controlled.

the Cat can still outrun the LDT w/ a punctured IC. the trans cooler is a good point.

so besides high costs for parts, some sort of potential damage to a trans cooler, and ill-conceived notions that the LDT is any sort of more reliable than the 3116, the A3 has the advantage of the 100+ other catagories, right?