Advice on getting a wheeled armored vehicle

[ParaShootist]

Hi all,

My brother and I are entering the hobby and wanting to purchase a wheeled armored vehicle. I’m hoping for some valuable perspective from with wealth of experience here. Our only real experience is fixing up an old Peacekeeper that I obtained for my former agency thru a federal surplus program. It had its ups and downs. It overheated easily (in fact the USAF guys had removed the armored grill, and I had to scrounge another), and off-road it was pretty limited. Other than that, it was very neat and we had a lot of fun with it.

We were kind of excited about a really nice Saxon, but it had sold – and honestly, the price was really more than we planned to spend. Then we thought we’d found a BTR-40 which seemed perfect for us, but no joy – already sold. We’ve been reading everything we can find to help make our decisions. I’ve read that parts for a Humber Pig are next to vaporware even for our friends in the UK. The belly wheels on the BRDM and FUG look too funky and complex – amphibious capability is not something we’re interested in anyway. Neither of us have a high level of auto-mechanical skill or much experience with armored vehicles, sooo . . . we figured something like a Saracen, Saladin, BTR60 or OT64 (or anything fully tracked) would probably not be a good choice to start with. The US military stuff (M3, V100, etc.) seems mostly priced out of reach – like even more than the Saxon.

We want something that’s already in good operating condition. We're looking at consulting a reputable broker like KCI or similar. Within the realm of reality (something already in the U.S. or practically feasible to import), I feel like I’ve pretty much penciled myself into a corner with a Daimler Ferret as the only real possibility. They are pretty cool, but I wish they had a little more room.

Am I overlooking anything important? Any recommendations or hot tips?

Anyone know where there's another BTR-40?

Help will be much appreciated.

 

[patracy]

Take what ever you've budgeted and add 50%.

 

[av8or]

I have ferret and think it is an excellent choice for wheeled armor. I believe the cost to keep goes up as the size increases, And it is easy to store.

 

[Stan Leschert]

It isn't going to be cheap, but I noticed this in our classifieds. No affiliation with seller.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...r-Ferret-Package-20-000-Priced-for-quick-sale

 

[kcimb]

Brdm owner here. Buy in the best shape you can.

 

[derekchace]

I love my Shorland MKIII alot nicer to drive then a ferret, far cheaper (if you can find one)' and parts are way cheaper.

 

[ParaShootist]

Take what ever you've budgeted and add 50%.

Is this in respect to initial outlay for the vehicle, or like incidentals and hidden costs after we get it home?

I know there's always more to want and every system seems to beg for more accessories.

 

[ParaShootist]

av8or – Thanks for that perspective – it’s the kind of insight that I need. A Ferret was kind of our first thought and probably will be where we end up. Finding a nice one (preferably a Mk 2/3) at least to look at, is on our ‘todo’ list. My brother & I are neither old nor fat, but we’re not kids either. I’m 6’2’’ 205 - I’d like see how it would be to get into and out of one. We may also look into an FV721 Fox - "if we can find one." Presently, I'm just trying to get over my infatuation with the BTR-40 and come back from the dark-side.

Thanks for the tip Stan. I’d seen the half-track/ferret combo. They looked to be a fixer-upper kinda deal that exceeds my WECSOMVR level (Wile E. Coyote School of Military Vehicle Restoration). Asking price is probably a good value, but two projects would almost certainly be a fatal error for this neophyte.

kcimb – Thanks for jumping in. I have read a lot of your old posts and followed some of your quest with much interest. I took that lesson from reading your experiences – we want to get something that’s pretty much already in excellent condition. I believe you said in one post that if you’d bought the finished vehicle (from Earl Tucker), you be driving it and would have been out about the same money.
BTW- Did you get the BRDM finished? I’d love to see it.

derekchace – I appreciate your info on the Shorland. I couldn’t find much at all on them until I stumbled onto Clive Elliot’s site. I’d like to look into a Shorland as real a possibility, but they haven't really caught my brother’s eye. Moreover, I’ve not seen any variant of Shorland for sale. How is a MkIII price-wise compared to a Ferret?

I appreciate all the input guys, really! Keep up the fire.

 

[derekchace]

I paid £4000 for mine. So about half of what a good ferret is going for these days. They are very rare but I thin overall is a much more usable system and alot easier to maintain because of being mostly stock land rover parts.

 

[derekchace]

Couple nice foxes on MILWEB in the £15k range

http://www.milweb.net/webverts/68378/

 

[ParaShootist]

I paid £4000 for mine. So about half of what a good ferret is going for these days. They are very rare but I thin overall is a much more usable system and alot easier to maintain because of being mostly stock land rover parts.

That is an excellent bit of news as none have been up on places like milweb - Thanks. The commonality with rovers is kind of attractive particularly on the maintainability aspects. Couple of questions if you don't mind. Did you import your MkIII yourself or go through a broker? What kind of condition was it in (generally speaking - mechanically, cosmetically)? I'll appreciate the details.

 

[derekchace]

I imported it my self (I also own a company importing and selling rovers), camein excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition.

http://photobucket.com/albums/gg298/steeltiger22/Shorland

 

[ParaShootist]

I imported it my self (I also own a company importing and selling rovers), camein excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition.

http://photobucket.com/albums/gg298/steeltiger22/Shorland

That's totally awesome! Seriously, your Shorland is a beautiful and very high-speed piece of kit. I admire it a lot!! But then, I've always kinda had a thing for MOD Land Rovers - even as a kid, I had a Tamiya 1/35 scale SAS pink panther. Did you do the turret addition or have it done or what? Did the cost you mentioned include the finished vehicle with turret? For us, a turret would be an absolute requisite - my brother and I have had that discussion in connection with Ferrets. I have sooo many questions. I'll try not to be too prying and pesky. I'm thinking this option could have real potential, except for the issue of availability. If one in excellent condition were practically available, I think we might find it an easier choice. I hope you don't mind continuing this discussion. Many thanks!

 

[M813rc]

If possible, find a Fox and get into it before you buy. At 6'2" and 205, you will find it a squeeze!
I am 6" and 185 and found the Fox, particularly the turret, a tight fit. I had problems trying to figure out where to put my feet while turning the turret, my toes kept banging into non-moving parts (I only have size 10 feet). The drivers seat is interesting to get in and out of too.
But they are wickedly cool!

The Ferret, though smaller, I found easier to get into.

The BRDM is actually pretty roomy. I have played in them, but don't own one, though several folks on here do/have and can give more input.

The number one thing is be patient, and do your research. It took me years to find a V100 I could afford, but it happened. There are very few of them out there though.

Good luck, and show us what you find!


Cheers

 

[ParaShootist]

M813rc - Valuable details on Fox & Ferret (real potentials) and sage advice - particularly that patience thing - Many Thanks! I appreciate the info and encouragement.

MVs have been an intrigue for us for years (owned M38A1 for a while; had a Peacekeeper and an M1009 at work). We've thought about it for over a decade, but its the first time we've really had the resources to get our own armored vehicle. However, its beginning to look like its still more "journey" than "destination." Not really what I imagined.

There don't seem to be many Foxes in country - but then it doesn't seem like there's "a lot" of any of these things. I'd seen the two Fox cars on milweb that derekchace pointed out as well as a number of Ferrets. The Shorland looked very attractive (particularly price) until we factored in the relative unavailability. I still think we'd be well satisfied to find a nice MkIII (if they were half the price of a nice Ferret we'd even buy two. ) Ferret keeps coming up as a good choice that is fairly available. I've admired Cadillac Gage MVs for years - a V100 or V150 with the twin MG turret would be the ultimate machine for us. They are truly cool but realistically beyond reach. We are researching and learning as fast as we can, but the curve is steep at this point. Again, thank you sir for your comments.

Ahhh, the search goes on . . .

 

[M813rc]

Foxes do pop up with some regularity, though not frequently. I came real close to buying a quite nice one, but found my V100 literally hours before I was going to commit!

The V is my "dream car", and I spent many years 'sorta' looking for one, and almost five years seriously looking. But I didn't have the $$ for one of the nice ones. I had pretty much given up and was going to buy the Fox instead. I didn't realize at the time though, that it was going to take three years to finish up my V. Most of it could have been done a bit quicker, particularly if I didn't have to go to work (!). But it got done before my kids grew up.

I, too, am a big fan of Cad-Gage products. I have driven the Rangers at work, they are really just an armoured pickup, but cool. I got to put some 20+ miles on a Commando Scout, and got a turret ride in a V100 a couple of weeks ago (thanks HellonwheelsV100!!). I have several hundred miles behind the wheel of my V now, but have never got to ride anywhere in my turret.
I would really love to see a V300 parked next to my other stuff, but its pretty unlikely...

Cheers

 

[B3.3T]

No matter what you buy, it is going to be a compromise. That's life. For first time armor, given all the factors- cost, availability, parts, fun, cool factor, etc.- it's hard to beat a Ferret. They all hold value, so you can always get your money back. while everyone wants a Mk. 2/3 with the turret, the Mk. 1/2 is a lot roomier and you can mount a .50.

 

[Tascabe]

I can tell you that a BTR-40 would not be fun for you to drive at 6'2". Even the Israeli mods do not make it much better. I am 5'9" and my legs get a bit cramped in there.

Rest of the vehicle is nice a roomy though - of course no top cover or turret helps with that...

 

[ParaShootist]

Thanks! and another question?

Thanks a bunch you all!!

M813rc - I appreciate ya. The Rangers are cool - spent a LOT of turret time in ours and have driven it as much as 60 miles in a day going to support another team on ops. If you ever need a driver to help you get a ride in your turret, I'd be honored. Whats the weapons config on your turret? I always thought I'd want the one with a .30 and a .50.

B3.3T - those are wise words. I appreciate the benefit of your experience. You're right - life is always a compromise. We've pretty much always come back to the Ferret as the best compromise. I am having a quandry over that Mk2/3 vs. 1/2 thing. My bro's the senior partner - he favors the 2/3. But then, we both love MaDeuce.

Tascabe - thanks a lot for that insight. I have quite a few images of your BTR-40, and I've read a lot of your adventures. I'm a really big IDF fan and having an IzMod armored truck was particularly attractive for that reason. I wasn't keen on the open top, but as we used to say "its just the price of bein' cool!"

We were considering a Fox, but the Ferret seems a better option for us. Ferret is more supported in terms of knowledge base/collector community and we feel we can probably get a much better condition vehicle for our money. Its our first AFV; we want an investment grade vehicle. Maybe we'll trade up later or expand as we grow in the hobby, but we want the first one to be a good experience.

I have another question for you guys. We're thinking of going through a broker to help us NAV this deal and discovered three so far - in no particular order - KCI, T-K and IRD. Talked to two by phone. They all have nice pics on their websites - mostly of stuff thats SOLD, but it doesn't take much to look awesome on the internet.

Is there a way to get some feedback on vendors/brokers, anyway to help choose who you trust?

I've googled, searched SS and elsewhere, and . . . well, you know exhausted myself here. I didn't discover much in terms of feedback. For instance I can tell that Tascabe bought his BTR from LB@T-K, but I never saw anything to tell how that went. I'm not looking for an endorsement or anything that would trouble the fine people that provide this forum. However, I would appreciate anyone that's had experience dealing with/buying from an importer/broker to tell me how that worked out for them.

My other major hobby website has a special forum for reviews - a place for end-user feedback. If this new guy has overlooked the obvious, please suffer me patiently and point me in the right direction.

As always, thank you guys! Very awesome community here.

 

[Artisan]

Couple nice foxes on MILWEB in the £15k range

http://www.milweb.net/webverts/68378/

WOW! Some of the stuff they are peddling is off the chain awesome! I do not know what the laws are and of coarse a guy needs lots of doubloons to ship stuff but DANG! CLICK HERE