Another Ahab
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Looks mighty sharp, jbmatt. Nice!
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Behr Paint Jobs- Show me your MV's
- Thread starter wsucougarx
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What color is this from Behr? Is this 24084?
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I've been super busy cranking out a dozen of these. My modified USMC green Behr top and Industrial black paint on the chassis (much more abrasive and thermal resistant). I like the look.
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Another Ahab
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Yeah. It looks real good, fuzzytoaster!
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Just an FYI - Federal Standard 595 was deprecated as of 14 Feb 2017. It was replaced with AMS-STD-595.
I'm currently working with PPG and testing their Permanizer - which is a much more color stable and more robust paint than Behr Premium Plus (4300) with only minimal increased cost (~$70 per gallon instead of ~$50 per gallon).
Permanizer is the same type of paint as 4300 but slightly more durable, and much more UV stable.
I'm currently working with PPG and testing their Permanizer - which is a much more color stable and more robust paint than Behr Premium Plus (4300) with only minimal increased cost (~$70 per gallon instead of ~$50 per gallon).
Permanizer is the same type of paint as 4300 but slightly more durable, and much more UV stable.
- 1,725
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- Nova Laboratories, WA
Slight update on the PPG.
1. They 'found' the code in their system, but the code is only valid on certain product lines - they can't use any code on any product lines, and the only product lines that the code is eligible for is a marine grade epoxy. This is to prevent people from doing stupid #(%& and ordering the wrong stuff in the 'right' color, and protects their name/brand from people doing stupid stuff like painting cars with latex paint..
2. They were able to use their AMS595 color wheels/swatches/whatever, and do a color match using that, and it looks pretty spot on but won't know until it gets sprayed.
3. Behr looks the tiniest hair flatter, but not by much - but this was only with about 30 minutes drying on a test stick.
4. Home Depot now carries Permanizer at $52/gallon, however they're having issue getting flat ultra deep base permanizer in stock for some reason. I ended up paying about $67/gallon direct from PPG and no, they don't price match.
I should be painting in the next couple weeks and will provide an update.
1. They 'found' the code in their system, but the code is only valid on certain product lines - they can't use any code on any product lines, and the only product lines that the code is eligible for is a marine grade epoxy. This is to prevent people from doing stupid #(%& and ordering the wrong stuff in the 'right' color, and protects their name/brand from people doing stupid stuff like painting cars with latex paint..
2. They were able to use their AMS595 color wheels/swatches/whatever, and do a color match using that, and it looks pretty spot on but won't know until it gets sprayed.
3. Behr looks the tiniest hair flatter, but not by much - but this was only with about 30 minutes drying on a test stick.
4. Home Depot now carries Permanizer at $52/gallon, however they're having issue getting flat ultra deep base permanizer in stock for some reason. I ended up paying about $67/gallon direct from PPG and no, they don't price match.
I should be painting in the next couple weeks and will provide an update.
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So.... Looks like dew point dropped. Came out in the morning the the entire truck covered in dew. The paint didn't make it. Huge streaks down the side....roof is pretty much bare....big spots on hood....
All that prep and work for naught. I'm pissed.
Don't think it's the paint's fault but here we are 24 hours later....lows in 40s....highs in 60s.... Sunny.... And paint still isn't dry to the touch. TDS said 2 hours to touch dry and 4 hours to rain proof.... It had almost 12 before dew point dropped.
Color and flatness is pretty good.
I don't know if it's salvageable or not..... Depends on if I can live with having extra black and brown to hide the bad green - which makes it not a 3 color camo.....
All that prep and work for naught. I'm pissed.
Don't think it's the paint's fault but here we are 24 hours later....lows in 40s....highs in 60s.... Sunny.... And paint still isn't dry to the touch. TDS said 2 hours to touch dry and 4 hours to rain proof.... It had almost 12 before dew point dropped.
Color and flatness is pretty good.
I don't know if it's salvageable or not..... Depends on if I can live with having extra black and brown to hide the bad green - which makes it not a 3 color camo.....
Another Ahab
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You got robbed by the Paint Gods.
Brother, I am sorry about that.
But it could make a good base for a final finish coat, do you think?
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What was your thinner and mix ratio? Also did you add a bit of hardner to the paint?
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Definitely didn't dry enough before the dew got to it. I've had a few trucks do the same thing when the morning dew settled and the night before wasn't dry enough for the full cure. It really sucks but it's easy cleanup and repaint with the Behr.
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I th
I thought he was using the PPG epoxy versus the behr latex?
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my bad, it's the Behr paint job thread so.. still bad adhesion.
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I got finished painting around dusk. For sure didn't cure enough.
PPG permanizer - a longer lasting more UV stable paint. Still an acrylic latex like Behr 4300.
Flatness is good. I think it'll be a good replacement for Behr.
I may have also over diluted it.... I used 16oz water because it wasn't spraying out of my gun I always used for Behr. I switched to another gun and it shot beautifully and I covered the entire truck in like 10 mins.
PPG has huge warnings that say 'do not thin' which I ignored...since I thinned the Behr too....
I will chalk this failure up to me...
The areas that the paint is sticking looks great.
It's supposed to rain for the next week and I'm intentionally leaving it outside.... This coat is already a wash....pun intended....but it'll give me a good idea on what amount of time I need for curing.
This first batch I wanted to get through PPG which does cost a bit more... The next run I will grab from home depot as they have it for $51 per gallon.
I don't mind being a long term guinea pig.....if it doesn't work I can always go back to Behr.
My biggest issue is wasting 2 hours trying to get my other gun working.... I ended up pulling out my big daddy 3000psi professional paint gun used to paint houses and fences and it absolutely flew in there with no issues.
PPG permanizer - a longer lasting more UV stable paint. Still an acrylic latex like Behr 4300.
Flatness is good. I think it'll be a good replacement for Behr.
I may have also over diluted it.... I used 16oz water because it wasn't spraying out of my gun I always used for Behr. I switched to another gun and it shot beautifully and I covered the entire truck in like 10 mins.
PPG has huge warnings that say 'do not thin' which I ignored...since I thinned the Behr too....
I will chalk this failure up to me...
The areas that the paint is sticking looks great.
It's supposed to rain for the next week and I'm intentionally leaving it outside.... This coat is already a wash....pun intended....but it'll give me a good idea on what amount of time I need for curing.
This first batch I wanted to get through PPG which does cost a bit more... The next run I will grab from home depot as they have it for $51 per gallon.
I don't mind being a long term guinea pig.....if it doesn't work I can always go back to Behr.
My biggest issue is wasting 2 hours trying to get my other gun working.... I ended up pulling out my big daddy 3000psi professional paint gun used to paint houses and fences and it absolutely flew in there with no issues.
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Thanks for more details
Will have to check out
What are the 3 ppg paint codes and what gun did you have success with?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Will have to check out
What are the 3 ppg paint codes and what gun did you have success with?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I only got the 383 green (34094) to start out with to see how it worked.
I'll upload the sticker here a bit later when I get the second sticker from home depot so you can choose HD if you don't have a PPG store near you.
As for the paint gun... they're not cheap... but my god do they throw down some paint with the quickness.
LuckeyD
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Looks good!
SCSG-G4
PSVB 3003
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I remember years ago when I wanted some 383 Green and showed the H.D. guy how to look up the FSS codes. He got really excited when I had him look up 'school bus yellow' - he knew that they could bid on local government contracts with ease.
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Round 2 update.
60* and sunny. Low estimated to be about 35* tonight. Paint says must be above 35* for 24 hours during the curing process.
Started painting around 1400, was done by 1415. Paint was dry to the touch by 1530. By 1630 it felt almost cured and I was LEANING on it without leaving any marks. 1 gallon worked perfectly for the M1009.
Rolled it into one of those vinyl sided garages and stuck a diesel heater in there set to 75* - need to go back out in a couple hours to top it off so it'll last through the night - probably didn't need to do that but not taking any chances.
So far, does seem to have the ever so slightest of sheens, so I'm hoping it'll get knocked down a bit when it fully cures. Behr 4300 was/is dead flat.
Will have pics tomorrow.
I can tell you right off the bat there are a TON of solids in this paint. I mean, a ridiculous amount - it's THICK. Behr was much thinner and I was getting 2-3 thin coats with 1 gallon of 4300 on an M1009 and the Permanizer just DUMPS on there and sticks... pretty thickly - to the point that I had just gone over the truck ONCE when the pump for the sprayer started cavitating/lost prime. I was able to do some touchups on previous trouble areas (roof, mainly) to use the rest of the paint. So, if you're doing a M1008/M1028 you can probably get away with a gallon if you're not spraying the inside of the bed. If it's an M1010 or M1031 you'll need 2 gallons minimum.
To wit:
Coverage -
Permanizer : 250-300 sq ft
4300: 250-400 sq ft
Weight per Gallon -
Permanizer : 11.6
4300: 11.2
Solids by Volume/Weight:
Permanizer : 44% / 60%
4300: 40% / 53%
Dry film thickness
Permanizer: 2.8
4300: 2.5
So, the solids difference is basically the UV inhibitors and other additives that make it last longer.
The 4300 can be shot with a $20 HF airless paint sprayer if thinned properly. The Permanizer won't even start to work with the small airless, and even with my commercial one had to be thinned a bit.
There are 2 questions that I won't know the answers to, in terms of being able to judge if it's a worthy successor to 4300. 1. Sheen - if the sheen stays, it won't work. I had the same issue with Behr Marquee - 'Flat' wasn't exactly flat. and 2. how long the color lasts.
FYI, my decision to try Permanizer was based mostly on this review:
I still think 4300 is probably gonna be the better bet for most people. However if you have the equipment and it lasts a lot longer than it may be the better bet.
60* and sunny. Low estimated to be about 35* tonight. Paint says must be above 35* for 24 hours during the curing process.
Started painting around 1400, was done by 1415. Paint was dry to the touch by 1530. By 1630 it felt almost cured and I was LEANING on it without leaving any marks. 1 gallon worked perfectly for the M1009.
Rolled it into one of those vinyl sided garages and stuck a diesel heater in there set to 75* - need to go back out in a couple hours to top it off so it'll last through the night - probably didn't need to do that but not taking any chances.
So far, does seem to have the ever so slightest of sheens, so I'm hoping it'll get knocked down a bit when it fully cures. Behr 4300 was/is dead flat.
Will have pics tomorrow.
I can tell you right off the bat there are a TON of solids in this paint. I mean, a ridiculous amount - it's THICK. Behr was much thinner and I was getting 2-3 thin coats with 1 gallon of 4300 on an M1009 and the Permanizer just DUMPS on there and sticks... pretty thickly - to the point that I had just gone over the truck ONCE when the pump for the sprayer started cavitating/lost prime. I was able to do some touchups on previous trouble areas (roof, mainly) to use the rest of the paint. So, if you're doing a M1008/M1028 you can probably get away with a gallon if you're not spraying the inside of the bed. If it's an M1010 or M1031 you'll need 2 gallons minimum.
To wit:
Coverage -
Permanizer : 250-300 sq ft
4300: 250-400 sq ft
Weight per Gallon -
Permanizer : 11.6
4300: 11.2
Solids by Volume/Weight:
Permanizer : 44% / 60%
4300: 40% / 53%
Dry film thickness
Permanizer: 2.8
4300: 2.5
So, the solids difference is basically the UV inhibitors and other additives that make it last longer.
The 4300 can be shot with a $20 HF airless paint sprayer if thinned properly. The Permanizer won't even start to work with the small airless, and even with my commercial one had to be thinned a bit.
There are 2 questions that I won't know the answers to, in terms of being able to judge if it's a worthy successor to 4300. 1. Sheen - if the sheen stays, it won't work. I had the same issue with Behr Marquee - 'Flat' wasn't exactly flat. and 2. how long the color lasts.
FYI, my decision to try Permanizer was based mostly on this review:
I still think 4300 is probably gonna be the better bet for most people. However if you have the equipment and it lasts a lot longer than it may be the better bet.
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So...
After a false start with Permanizer...and after reviewing the damage from the dew/moisture it was only on the curved edges (roof edges, hood edges, etc) and could have been salvaged but I was so frustrated I just sanded again and shot second coat, which cured relatively fast. came out the next day and shot the 2 other colors.
I was able to lay down all 3 colors... however, ran into some quirks.
With Behr it can be thinned pretty easy and shoots well even from their $13 HF 'airless sprayer' (which I don't even see that they carry anymore). With Permanizer it's THICK... I had to thin it way down in order to get it to shoot properly. 2nd issue is, thick paint and small tips don't work well, but you need a small tip to control the pattern and make the 3 color camo correct. So, in that respect, I could only get a rough approximation of the NATO 3 color because I couldn't really control the spray that well.
So, 1st issue was my fault - not allowing adequate cure time before exposing to moisture.
2nd issue was paint thickness..... that's gonna depend on what equipment you have, but bumps it up from a casual thing to a 'needs more equipment' thing for most people. Some people HAVE shot it out of an HVLP but they're talking 90-100+ PSI for proper flow rates/atomization.
That being said... it came out pretty decent. It's still in hiding since it's supposed to rain for a couple days - but I'll be reassembling it, getting it stenciled, putting all the new hardware on it, etc.
and... for all those guys complaining about having to tape off and blah blah blah.... this is what happens when you just coat things with oil before you spray.
After a false start with Permanizer...and after reviewing the damage from the dew/moisture it was only on the curved edges (roof edges, hood edges, etc) and could have been salvaged but I was so frustrated I just sanded again and shot second coat, which cured relatively fast. came out the next day and shot the 2 other colors.
I was able to lay down all 3 colors... however, ran into some quirks.
With Behr it can be thinned pretty easy and shoots well even from their $13 HF 'airless sprayer' (which I don't even see that they carry anymore). With Permanizer it's THICK... I had to thin it way down in order to get it to shoot properly. 2nd issue is, thick paint and small tips don't work well, but you need a small tip to control the pattern and make the 3 color camo correct. So, in that respect, I could only get a rough approximation of the NATO 3 color because I couldn't really control the spray that well.
So, 1st issue was my fault - not allowing adequate cure time before exposing to moisture.
2nd issue was paint thickness..... that's gonna depend on what equipment you have, but bumps it up from a casual thing to a 'needs more equipment' thing for most people. Some people HAVE shot it out of an HVLP but they're talking 90-100+ PSI for proper flow rates/atomization.
That being said... it came out pretty decent. It's still in hiding since it's supposed to rain for a couple days - but I'll be reassembling it, getting it stenciled, putting all the new hardware on it, etc.
and... for all those guys complaining about having to tape off and blah blah blah.... this is what happens when you just coat things with oil before you spray.