• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

Best gen set for home backup.

Evvy Fesler

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
366
769
93
Location
Roxboro, North Carolina USA
Oh ok. I’ll make sure to get drop hitch and flip it around the 4Runner is about 3 inches lower at the hitch then f150. I’m going to grab a trailer to just to have some night reading. The most I’ve towed was. 3600 and it did alright. I’ll look up what they weigh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had a 4-Runner once. I'm sure you'll be fine. You need a pintle hitch though. It's the one that grabs the ring that are on military vehicles. They come in all kinds of configurations. Don't spend a lot of money.
1671319105832.png
 
Last edited:

Evvy Fesler

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
366
769
93
Location
Roxboro, North Carolina USA
You will want to look in the Generator TM section. Look at the Power unit TM's for the 802 and 803.
The PU-797 is an 802 and PU-798 is 803 10K unit.
They came is a couple different versions, steel and aluminum.
Steel has leaf springs, aluminum is torsion tube
And a couple different body shapes.
The one I have is this one. It is an aluminum body with a detachable crank jack, unlike the steel version with the fold up leg.
Mine has also already been converted to a civilian 7 pin round plug and has LED marker lights as well as LED reverse spot lights installed.
Torsion tube suspension and the toolbox.

View attachment 886457
I like LED lamps and rear spotlights. Nice improvement.
 

Evvy Fesler

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
366
769
93
Location
Roxboro, North Carolina USA
Surge brakes. This is one reason you want them reasonably level.
Yep... it'll push you. Go slow. Avoid steep hills out there in flat CT! They have hand brakes, mine has one on each side. Couldn't convince the Seabee to saddle up and work the brakes on the way home. Wah, wah 😢😢

(Now I've gone and done it. Gotta bake a batch of oatmeal-craisin cookies pronto!)
 
Last edited:

Chainbreaker

Well-known member
1,750
1,843
113
Location
Oregon
Regarding a prior comment on surge brakes & the shock absorber (forgot the other technical term they use... inertia actuator?) Yeah, 1 of my M116A2 trailers had a shot shock absorber within the tongue mechanism's hydraulic actuator as well. When I was bringingmy MEP-002a on the M116A2 trailer home every time I came to a stop it was like a jack hammer was pounding my truck's pintle hitch lunette ring. At the time I wasn't aware that there is a lock out hole where you can insert a pin/bolt that will lock out the shock absorber/brake actuator. I later did that and problem solved as I really didn't need the added braking behind my 3/4 ton truck doing short in-town trips.

I later investigated replacing the small shock damping absorber and it was a bit pricy for what it is and seemed somewhat time consuming to replace so I just left the lock out pin in place. If I was using it off the compound much or on road trips, I would replace the shock absorber to restore the additional braking safety feature that the surge braking mechanism provides.
 
Last edited:

glcaines

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,841
2,409
113
Location
Hiawassee, Georgia
When I replaced the shock absorber in the surge brake actuator, it cost me $53.95, including shipping from Croft Trailer Supply in Kansas City. However, this was in March of 2014, so prices have obviously increased. I also initially did the trick with the bolt or pin to keep the unit locked in place. However, I decided that not having trailer brakes with that heavy a trailer/genset combination was dangerous. Having a working surge brake on the trailer makes pulling the trailer much easier and safer. You don't even know it is back there. It wasn't difficult to replace the shock absorber.
 

G744

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
1,593
3,494
113
Location
Hidden Valley, Az
We're always optimistic about load vs. genset output. Starting motors can pull up to 600% of running current. Smaller plants need to be chosen wisely so as not to cause brownouts when things inductive fire up.

10kW wouldn't cut a home out here in Summer/Hell, as the AC will pull that much half the day with the afternoon air temp running 115 to 120F. Most of late July/early August it will not be under 100F 24/7 for 3 weeks.

Climate is changing everywhere, and more heat seems to be the order of the day.

Fueling the thing is something to contemplate: Those in cold climates might want a propane-powered unit as they are lots easier to get started.

A natural gas hookup might be advisable if handy, as you don't need to store fuel.

Our 10ac place has 3ph power, and a good percentage of 3ph demand. All the single phase stuff is load balanced to make the most of it.

Our genset is a vintage USAF 60kW Diesel job with a Detroit 3-71 (noisy but no neighbors), in a steel-framed structure with removable wall panels on a concrete pad. 400 gal. outdoor tank. Westinghouse automatic transfer switch.

Summer peak demand will be around 45kW with AC, well pump, H2O heat. The rest of the year it is around 12kW, and power failures run 2-3 times a year during Summer Monsoons and can be from minutes to 3 days, depending.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Farmitall

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
544
274
63
Location
Eubank, KY
We're always optimistic about load vs. genset output. Starting motors can pull up to 600% of running current. Smaller plants need to be chosen wisely so as not to cause brownouts when things inductive fire up.

10kW wouldn't cut a home out here in Summer/Hell, as the AC will pull that much half the day with the afternoon air temp running 115 to 120F. Most of late July/early August it will not be under 100F 24/7 for 3 weeks.

Climate is changing everywhere, and more heat seems to be the order of the day.

Fueling the thing is something to contemplate: Those in cold climates might want a propane=powered unit as they are lots easier to get started.

A natural gas hookup might be advisable if handy, as you don't need to store fuel.

Our 10ac place has 3ph power, and a good percentage of 3ph demand. All the single phase stuff is load balanced to make the most of it.

Our genset is a vintage USAF 60kW Diesel job with a Detroit 3-71 (noisy bitch but no neighbors), in a steel-framed structure with removable wall panels on a concrete pad. 400 gal. outdoor tank. Westinghouse automatic transfer switch.

Summer peak demand will be around 45kW with AC, well pump, H2O heat. The rest of the year it is around 12kW, and power failures run 2-3 times a year during Summer Monsoons and can be from minutes to 3 days, depending.
The natural gas route would/might be nice for some, but I have two problems.....it's not handy out here in the Kentucky sticks and if it was, it's utility dependency that I would rather not have.

Luckily, even living as remote as I do, the power outages here have been surprisingly minimal over the past 10 years. The longest outage to date was last winter (7 days) and the MEP803a performed wonderfully. I heat with wood exclusively and cook with propane so there are no large current draw devices, but I understand your rational/posting and it is something for people to plan ahead for along with a load management/reduction plan.

Fueling for the MEP803a wasn't a problem as it was a routine when I was in the army and I keep 350gal on hand with ten 5gal cans filled and had to periodically fetch firewood outside from the woodshed anyway and am still fairly fit. I guess I'll adapt to my needs as time goes on.

My biggest issue would be making things easy for my wife if I became unable to tend to things.
 

Chainbreaker

Well-known member
1,750
1,843
113
Location
Oregon
For anyone contemplating selecting a home backup generator & various fuel sources to run their backup generator(s) off of... I suggest you research some of the pros & cons of various fuels & gensets that utilize those fuels.

This article will get you started: Generator Fuel, What Generator Fuel is Best (generatorjoe.net) Remember it depends on a lot of factors that might be unique to you & your specific location.
 

Coug

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,874
4,121
113
Location
Olympia/WA
It’s not a bad idea on a trailer. Hummm I’m going to take a look at gov planet and eBay. How well do the m116 trailers hook up to an suv? That would be cool the more I think about it.

On the power side I’ve had concerns about “clean” power. That the whole reason I didn’t get a generac was because of the tv my server and range. i need a good clean 60hz the mep831 on an oscilloscope looks pretty good. And I took it under assumption that the larger units would produce the same kinda power. I know there not inverter units but should produce some clean power.

This form is great so many great ideas. So now I need a drive in bunker just for my gen set hahahahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The 831 is an inverter type generator, so yes, it should have clean power.
All the larger generators (00X, 80X series) are mechanical governors. They have a lot of rotating mass, but a heavy load can still cause power fluctuations, just like any civilian generator.
I'm trying to say just because it's military, doesn't mean the power is going to be any better/worse than a good quality civilian generator. It's older tech, so in some instances it might be worse overall power quality.

These are designed to be prime power units, meaning they are expected to be run 24/7 for weeks or months on end. They'll last for many thousands (even tens of thousands) of hours.


So Generac has the largest share of the residential standby generator market.
I'm a Protector certified tech. Basically means residential and commercial warranty certified.

I have yet to hear a single customer mention any issues with any of their electronics while running on the generator.
It might not be perfectly squeaky clean power, but it's more than good enough for household electronics.
For over a decade now they've used electronic governors on their engines, so frequency stays right where it's supposed to be.



So I do have a few questions about your situation.

(some of this is just to clarify that we're talking about the same information and terminology)

How often does the power go out, and how long is a normal outage?
About how many hours a year do you estimate that you are without power?
That "12k full tilt" is a constant load, or is it things that cycle on and off like hot water, aircon, well pumps, etc.
What is the maximum possible load at one time for everything you might possibly have running?
How long of runtime do you plan to store fuel for? How much fuel storage capacity do you currently have?
Do you want this to be an automatic transfer operation or do you plan to do all your hookups and load balancing manually?




As others have pointed out, diesel engines like to be operated within a certain load range. Usually that's between about 60% to 90% of their rated load capacity. Too little load will cause wet stacking (unburned fuel oil as oily, fluffy carbon in the exhaust system) Propane generators don't have this issue, so you can run it at 1% load or 90% load and no worries about carbon buildup hurting performance.

Also it's been noted that you can't get single phase generators above 10kw. The 15k you still only get 10k usable for single phase application.
So while the 803 might be able to full load to 12kw, you don't have any leeway for surge loads like aircon compressors, well pumps, and other surges like that.

The majority of home standby generators fail due to age, not run hours. Very few of my customers (unless they are off-grid) run more than 50-100 hours a year where I'm at. I've only seen a few that failed due to run hours, but they also had many years on them as well. Even the ones being used off grid have lasted thousands of hours. At least one with their "990" engine was over 4500 hours when it got replaced, and that was for an electrical issue.

I understand the coolness factor and wanting a military generator. Heck, I have one (and 802 5kw) on a trailer that I use with my house when the power goes out, but I'm no aircon, wood heat, and only hot water, dryer, and stove for heavy loads when utility power is out, so it's pretty easy to balance.
It's certainly NOT the best generator to use as a home standby though.


That's probably enough info/opinions/questions for now. I'm more than happy to answer anything I can about Generacs as well if you want to know anything.
 

DD58

Well-known member
142
333
63
Location
Connecticut
The 831 is an inverter type generator, so yes, it should have clean power.
All the larger generators (00X, 80X series) are mechanical governors. They have a lot of rotating mass, but a heavy load can still cause power fluctuations, just like any civilian generator.
I'm trying to say just because it's military, doesn't mean the power is going to be any better/worse than a good quality civilian generator. It's older tech, so in some instances it might be worse overall power quality.

These are designed to be prime power units, meaning they are expected to be run 24/7 for weeks or months on end. They'll last for many thousands (even tens of thousands) of hours.


So Generac has the largest share of the residential standby generator market.
I'm a Protector certified tech. Basically means residential and commercial warranty certified.

I have yet to hear a single customer mention any issues with any of their electronics while running on the generator.
It might not be perfectly squeaky clean power, but it's more than good enough for household electronics.
For over a decade now they've used electronic governors on their engines, so frequency stays right where it's supposed to be.



So I do have a few questions about your situation.

(some of this is just to clarify that we're talking about the same information and terminology)

How often does the power go out, and how long is a normal outage?
About how many hours a year do you estimate that you are without power?
That "12k full tilt" is a constant load, or is it things that cycle on and off like hot water, aircon, well pumps, etc.
What is the maximum possible load at one time for everything you might possibly have running?
How long of runtime do you plan to store fuel for? How much fuel storage capacity do you currently have?
Do you want this to be an automatic transfer operation or do you plan to do all your hookups and load balancing manually?




As others have pointed out, diesel engines like to be operated within a certain load range. Usually that's between about 60% to 90% of their rated load capacity. Too little load will cause wet stacking (unburned fuel oil as oily, fluffy carbon in the exhaust system) Propane generators don't have this issue, so you can run it at 1% load or 90% load and no worries about carbon buildup hurting performance.

Also it's been noted that you can't get single phase generators above 10kw. The 15k you still only get 10k usable for single phase application.
So while the 803 might be able to full load to 12kw, you don't have any leeway for surge loads like aircon compressors, well pumps, and other surges like that.

The majority of home standby generators fail due to age, not run hours. Very few of my customers (unless they are off-grid) run more than 50-100 hours a year where I'm at. I've only seen a few that failed due to run hours, but they also had many years on them as well. Even the ones being used off grid have lasted thousands of hours. At least one with their "990" engine was over 4500 hours when it got replaced, and that was for an electrical issue.

I understand the coolness factor and wanting a military generator. Heck, I have one (and 802 5kw) on a trailer that I use with my house when the power goes out, but I'm no aircon, wood heat, and only hot water, dryer, and stove for heavy loads when utility power is out, so it's pretty easy to balance.
It's certainly NOT the best generator to use as a home standby though.


That's probably enough info/opinions/questions for now. I'm more than happy to answer anything I can about Generacs as well if you want to know anything.
Ok so to answer you questions.
Over the past 2 years we have lost power about a full weak each year. That’s on an off longest eas last year for 3 days. Usual it’s a day head and there. My grid power runs through the woods and we are the last to be fixed.

12kw would be to have all my appliances running at the same time my stove dryer fridge ac tv and a few lights. The panel is pretty balanced as it is now.

The fuel is taped into my oil tank. I have oil for heat and hot water. So I just have my aux pump for the 831 and fill it when I need to run it.

For a transfer switch I already have a manual switch. I have the few breaker I need labeled for now what to leave on so I don’t pull to much against the little 831.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Coug

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,874
4,121
113
Location
Olympia/WA
Ok so to answer you questions.
Over the past 2 years we have lost power about a full weak each year. That’s on an off longest eas last year for 3 days. Usual it’s a day head and there. My grid power runs through the woods and we are the last to be fixed.

12kw would be to have all my appliances running at the same time my stove dryer fridge ac tv and a few lights. The panel is pretty balanced as it is now.

The fuel is taped into my oil tank. I have oil for heat and hot water. So I just have my aux pump for the 831 and fill it when I need to run it.

For a transfer switch I already have a manual switch. I have the few breaker I need labeled for now what to leave on so I don’t pull to much against the little 831.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can see where the convenience of already having a large supply of fuel would make the diesel gen more attractive.

Looking through the forums, it DOES look like the MEP-004 15kw gen can be reconfigured from 3 phase to single phase and have full output, so that might be the best option for you if you are willing to do the conversion work and can locate one. Otherwise I'd say buy a civilian type 18-20kw diesel generator that does single phase and call it a day.
Trying to gimmick a generator to do what it wasn't set up for will work, but not the best option and you're basically running it near max output unbalanced (which won't harm these generators, but typically isn't a good practice).

 

DieselAddict

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,486
1,890
113
Location
Efland, NC
Iooking through the forums, it DOES look like the MEP-004 15kw gen can be reconfigured from 3 phase to single phase and have full output, so that might be the best option for you if you are willing to do the conversion work and can locate one. Otherwise I'd say buy a civilian type 18-20kw diesel generator that does single phase and call it a day.
Correct. It can be modded to do single phase. I'm still skeptical that amount of power is going to be needed on enough frequency to keep the machine healthy. Running a MEP004 at 5kw is even worse than running a MEP803 at 5kw.
 

Coug

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,874
4,121
113
Location
Olympia/WA
Correct. It can be modded to do single phase. I'm still skeptical that amount of power is going to be needed on enough frequency to keep the machine healthy. Running a MEP004 at 5kw is even worse than running a MEP803 at 5kw.
true, but it can always be loadbanked to blow out the carbon buildup.
Plus having the 831 that can be hooked up instead for light loads if the season doesn't demand additional power

Still better though than going to the 30kw generators and only pulling off one leg.
I suppose a DRASH or HDT gen setup with an 18kw 3 phase and pulling 12kw off one leg would also be a possibility. Gen is already on a trailer, has an ECU, and space for tents on it if being able to use the gen for emergency support is a big consideration.
 

Guyfang

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
15,975
22,360
113
Location
Burgkunstadt, Germany
Correct. It can be modded to do single phase. I'm still skeptical that amount of power is going to be needed on enough frequency to keep the machine healthy. Running a MEP004 at 5kw is even worse than running a MEP803 at 5kw.
If you only knew how FAST the set will start slobbering like a drunken Sailor! What a mess.
 

Ray70

Well-known member
2,391
5,163
113
Location
West greenwich/RI
I have to agree with DieselAddict. You should really think about your realistic needs.
Do you really have to have enough power available to run EVERYTHING at once?
I also have a good size house with a very big detached shop, well pump, electric stove, oil heat electric dryer, central AC, heat pump and I'm running an 003 with an 002 and an 831 available for low load occasions.
In a time of crisis I bet you would be able to manage to survive with a little load management and a 10Kw gen.
You can still run everything, just not all at the same time.
An 004 is great, but if you aren't utilizing a good amount of that power all the time you will waste a bunch of fuel and your exhaust pipe will quickly start dripping black goo all over the place! 2cents
 
Top