Big upgrade at little cost?

[fattboy123456]

I wanted to pick you guys Brains about a idea I had to help control 2 very dangerous things these trucks face when Turning these trucks up and facing Hi egts and trans temps

What if I put in a lower temp thermostat or drilled a few holes in my current one to Lower Engine coolant temps which would lower the temp in my aftercooler and Trans Cooler

I live in California where we really dont see extreme cold and I dont need the heater to be like im in the desert......

Thoughts?

 

[61sleepercab]

Engine temperature is set to maximize power and fuel economy. A colder engine will use more fuel and be hard on engine oil by condensation. I would instead add additional transmission cooler unit in series with original cooler line . There are lots of aftermarket oil coolers to choose from.

 

[fattboy123456]

Engine temperature is set to maximize power and fuel economy. A colder engine will use more fuel and be hard on engine oil by condensation. I would instead add additional transmission cooler unit in series with original cooler line . There are lots of aftermarket oil coolers to choose from.

Condensation.....so ill change the oil a little more often or let it warm up with the oil filler cap off once in a while
I want to use more fuel More fuel= more power
Why do people when they race chill there fuel to get a more dense charge
Im talking about lowering engine temps 20-50 deg Max


(if you have not had any experience running with out a thermostat or used a restriction plate your google cut and past responses will fall on deaf ears)

 

[fattboy123456]

I might just have to be the guinea pig on this and report my results

 

[98G]

More fuel for same amount of power = less efficiency, less complete combustion.

Fuel condensation = diluted lubricant = reduced engine life.

You don't want your motor to run cooler. What you want is greater cooling capacity to keep it from running too hot. When you're pulling the hill and the fan is running and the t-stat is wide open it doesn't matter if you have a thermostat in place or not. But greater cooling capacity would help....more coolant or more surface area to radiate heat.

 

[98G]

In the race world you see people putting higher temperature t-stat in place to increase running temperatures.

And yes, you see cooler cans to chill fuel, and NOS to chill and oxygenate the fuel charge. But not to reduce running temps.

internal combustion engines are heat engines. They extract power as a function of temperature difference between pre combustion temps and temp of combustion...

not convinced yet? Familiar with an EGR? It reduces emissions by means of lowering combustion temps. It also reduces power, increases fuel consumption, and reduces engine life....

 

[gimpyrobb]

More fuel for same amount of power = less efficiency, less complete combustion.

Fuel condensation = diluted lubricant = reduced engine life.

You don't want your motor to run cooler. What you want is greater cooling capacity to keep it from running too hot. When you're pulling the hill and the fan is running and the t-stat is wide open it doesn't matter if you have a thermostat in place or not. But greater cooling capacity would help....more coolant or more surface area to radiate heat.

This!

My pickup has been upgraded to a dual thermostat so when the motor is working hard, there is enough coolant flowing to pull the heat out of the motor. It is nothing new, the old chevy medium duty trucks with the 366 and 427 tall decks had dual thermostats too.

 

[73m819]

EGT is DIFFERENT then engine temperature, you CAN see a rise in EGT but not much of a engine temp., the EGT WILL melt a piston, the engine temp needs to stay about where it is for PROPER operation of the engine, the trans cooler should handle the heat just fine. It IS the EGT heat that needs to be watched.

 

[Rmtaunton]

EGT is DIFFERENT then engine temperature, you CAN see a rise in EGT but not much of a engine temp., the EGT WILL melt a piston, the engine temp needs to stay about where it is for PROPER operation of the engine, the trans cooler should handle the heat just fine. It IS the EGT heat that needs to be watched.

X2

 

[fattboy123456]

http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-55-keeping-cool/

 

[fattboy123456]

I think a lot of people are still running on the old method or racing where you need to get the 50wt oil up to temp lol

 

[74M35A2]

1. Move the radiator back 2.5" and install a real charge air cooler. One from a 1995 Volvo WIA truck with a Detroit Series 60 engine fits perfectly. Volvo part number 8181250. See 4xdesign's thread about it, he did a beautiful job and I am following his suit. The Cummins aftercooler is only effective to 300hp. On engines rated higher than that, it is restrictive and not conducive to higher power levels, they don't use it. Advancing injection timing is also supposedly effective to lower EGT's, I am heading down that path soon but want my EGT gauge working first to quantify that modification. Cummins also moves to an HX50 turbo on the larger HP 8.3's, which are rated up to 435hp in marine applications.

2. Your trans temp should not really be much hotter than the coolant temp if you are not pulling anything, or doing a lot of forward-reverse shift type loading like a snow plow would.

3. From your pic, I'd want a working heater. But, coolant temp is not really the issue with EGT's.

 

[porkysplace]

I think a lot of people are still running on the old method or racing where you need to get the 50wt oil up to temp lol

First off you need to quit comparing gas engines to diesel engines, they operate totally different. There is a reason they make fuel heaters for diesel engines and you don't see can coolers packed with dry ice in them . Diesels need heat to fire as opposed to gas engines having a ignition source . Running diesels cold is not good for them , but it's your truck , your money and your down time fixing it.

 

[gimpyrobb]

http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-55-keeping-cool/

So your running your truck 1/4 mile at a time?

 

[fattboy123456]

So your running your truck 1/4 mile at a time?

.....obviously it was info posted on a extreme condition with lots of heat built up and power applied and a engine builders opinion with lots of experiences. to help with the discussion show me a counter argument instead of rhetorical question.....

 

[fattboy123456]

Instead of trying to pick apart my info just make it clear (if you can)
By lowering my Engine coolant temp 20-40 deg I cant see a negative effect or a significant one....

but to lower my trans temp....which is good
lower my boost intake air temp.....which is good
Lowering my engine temp where when you climb a big hill or load a little a head .....which is good

my heater works a little less......bad

 

[98G]

Continually running a diesel engine below optimal temp will result in fuel dilution of the lubricant, wet stacking, and substantially reduced engine life....bad.

 

[fattboy123456]

Continually running a diesel engine below optimal temp will result in fuel dilution of the lubricant, wet stacking, and substantially reduced engine life....bad.

Fuel dilution/cloud/waxing happens in cold environments and long COLD idling instances .....I live at 400 elevation where my temps range from 110F to 30F ill just add a additive during the winter...

"IF" my truck starts to show signs of wet stacking Ill make necessary changes to stop it

 

[74M35A2]

The 6CTA8.3 aftercooler can easily be put on it's own cooling loop, there is only a single inlet and outlet pipe on it. Use an electric pump and some type of radiator for it like a trans cooler or such. This gets it off your engine cooling circuit altogether so you could easily and effectively lower its coolant temp by 100 degrees or more. This is good to 300hp level.

If you think you are going over 300hp, then this aftercooler is providing restriction to airflow, which is going to play a much larger part than reducing it's cooling liquid temp by 20-40F. The only way to correctly do what you want is to add the charge air cooler, and change the intake to a non-aftercooler type. That is what I am doing. Add said CAC (Charge Air Cooler) in front of radiator, then remove and discard this:


and install this:



Or, make the changes you desire and report the results so we can all value from them, but please report back with data so we all can learn (like 1/4 mile improvement times of 1 second, or blew holes in pistons #3, #4, and #6, with pics).

The HX40 may be an exhaust restriction also at that performance level, and that will drive EGT's to be high also. Make sure you are using the correctly sized turbo for your desired operating range (read and understand compressor flow efficiency maps). If you are still EGT hot at that point, then you can add a water/methanol (washer fluid) injection system.

There are a multitude of steps that can be taken, but total system comprehension is the best way of going about it. Learn how each part contributes, and its effect on others, within the entire system, to achieve the end result you want.

Source: Full credit to 4xdesign for his work and pics on the aftercooler and charge air cooler. When I spoke on the phone with him, he agreed a better path is to simply obtain the non-aftercooled intake rather than milling out the contents of the aftercooler.

 

[98G]

These 8.3's are essentially a scaled up 5.9. What works for a 5.9 will work for these. What kills a 5.9 will kill these.

Suboptimal running temps kill 5.9s, and reduce performance.

A bit of an extrapolation, but the 6.7 (which is similar but not identical) suffers from carbon buildup on the turbo, fuel dilution, and severely reduced engine life. This is caused by tuning differences (for emissions) which cause lower operating and combustion temps.

When the 6.7 is altered to run hotter, with higher combustion temps, these problems are resolved. In other words, if you take a 6.7 and make it run like a 5.9 it lives longer and runs better, with higher mpg and higher horsepower/torque.

What you're attempting to do is to take a motor that is essentially identical to the 5.9, and introduce the problems that the 6.7 has.

Fuel additives won't help with fuel dilution of the lubricant. You're not cold enough to need additives to prevent waxing and gelling.

The service life difference between the 5.9 and the 6.7 is 600,000miles vs 350,000miles. When you retune a 6.7 to run like the 5.9 you recoup the longevity. This should be very instructive.

I've had 5.9's. My daily driver is a 6.7 retuned (and substantially improved) to run like a 5.9. Retuning solved the lubricant fuel dilution problems.... but by all means, take a giant step back if you feel the need.