Boys, Check your nuts!!!

[zout]

On commercial trucks with alum and white powder coated rims a quick sign the nuts are loosening is there are streaks - usually rust slinging outward towards the tire - if they are heavy streaks - it means you are runing with loose nuts streaking

 

[airmech3839]

Thanks for the advice guys...

I have heard of using a large heavy duty C clamp and welding a nut on the end and use a rachet to press them out... Done plenty of that kinda thing in my line of work but usually with smaller C clamps!

 

[Jake0147]

I got a c clamp style press from the auto parts store. I can do wheel studs and small u joints with it. It works great and wont wreck your threads. I used it when I flipped my hubs. I don't know if you will have room to use one on the front without pulling the hub.

That tool I believe you will find is a ball joint press. (If not, then I'm going to recommend a ball joint press). It will pull and press studs, but make sure you get the adapter kit with it. You may have to improvise an adapter anyhow.



I know the OP said the lug studs are all being replaced, but for the record- Every one of those studs is junk. Their job is to hold the wheel on solely by the clamping force, they should NEVER see a "sideways" load against them. Every time the wheel "flops" and sends one little pulse of the vibration up through the truck, the truck is being dropped from one stud to the next. This bends them back and forth, just as you would do if you were trying to break a coat hangar wire. Bend it a couple of times, and it breaks. The bend here is a lot less, however if you count the number of "thumps" that make up a vibration, each one has been bent a LOT of times.
The wheel and lug nuts obviously need to be investigated for 100 percent proper contact between the lug nut taper and the tapered seat upon which it should sit. If it doesn't sit square and properly ALL the way around each hole, it will not stay seated properly at all.

Final tip, and this is kind of important. If you suspect that your lug nuts are installed too loosely, or "could be" installed too loosely due to inadequate or barely adequate equipment, the lines work great. Lug nutss that do not reach an adequate torque will unscrew. The failure mode is that the lug nuts back off, allowing the studs to receive a shear load that they can't take, then the studs fail. HOWEVER... If the lug nuts are overtightened, the failure mode is different, the stud fails first WITHOUT the lug nuts backing off, and odds are that the lines will never tell the tale.
Lines are great because that type of failure usually happens over a very short period of time. If humidity is low you may never see any visible sign. Stud failure (aside from actually snapping one off with a one inch (or quality three quarter inch) impact wrench, that failure takes a bit longer, and will USUALLY be there long enough to leave a visible sign. Never stop checking for cracked paint and that special color of powdery fine rust that emanates from a loose wheel nut.

 

[airmech3839]

You are right about the sudden/ short time to fail... It happened in less than 40 miles!! I am afraid that my failure was due to improper torque and It caused one stud to fail and so now I am gonna change them all... For two reasons... one like stated above cause of possible unknown damage sustained during event and because they are the improper thread direction for that side of the truck! Thank you Jake0147!

 

[earnie]

some come out easy, some take quite a beat to get off.

i dont believe ill go there in a thread about nuts

 

[flyxpl]

At least he had the nuts to tell his story so we all can learn from his possible mistake , neglect . Some guys are leary to post about stuff like this .

 

[dcwilkie]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but check your hub bolts on the rear axles as well. Mine keep working loose even with new split washers on.
I checked the TM and found a place that says to tighten them 90 to 95 FT LBS, but when I did one that way, the paper gasket and all the RTV squished out! Looked like I'd attached a some weird kind of fan to the hub. I'm only torquing to 55 ft lbs unless I hear different.
This will make the 3rd time I've had to replace the gasket on that particular hub

 

[dcwilkie]

When I did my brake job, I found it was not hard to mis-align the holes in the wheel and still get a good tightening on the lugs. Trouble is, once you get on the road, the wheel holes slip into the proper place and voila- no torque on the lugs at all! Scary!
Whenever putting a wheel back on, I find it wise to rotate the wheel to ensure the lugs are properly seated before torquing. Make sure the taper on the lugs are fully seated into the wheel holes. I think the line of marker paint should be a "must" and will start doing it myself!

 

[Crazyguyla]

At least he had the nuts to tell his story so we all can learn from his possible mistake , neglect . Some guys are leary to post about stuff like this .

Even though it's hard to talk about one's loose nuts, he came out and told us about his nut problems, so no one else will loose their nuts on the road.

 

[DieselBob]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but check your hub bolts on the rear axles as well. Mine keep working loose even with new split washers on.
I checked the TM and found a place that says to tighten them 90 to 95 FT LBS, but when I did one that way, the paper gasket and all the RTV squished out! Looked like I'd attached a some weird kind of fan to the hub. I'm only torquing to 55 ft lbs unless I hear different.
This will make the 3rd time I've had to replace the gasket on that particular hub

Just happen to be looking into this info and from TM 9-2320-361-20, page 7-26, 7-11. REAR AXLE SHAFT MAINTENANCE

"1. Coat one side of new gasket (5) with GAA grease and aline over holes in hub (6).
2. Carefully insert axle shaft (4) into hub (6) and axle housing (7). Turn until splines of axle shaft (4)
seat in differential. Aline holes of flange (3) to holes in gasket (5) and hub (6).
3. Install flange (3) with eight new lockwashers (2) and screws (1). Tighten screws (1) 60-80 lb-ft"

 

[doghead]

Yup, if your using sealant and it is visibly oozing out upon tightening, you are using too much. Actually, none is needed.

When you use too much sealant, you are simply adding a rubbery washer between your hub and drive axle flange. Obviously that is not good!

I install mine dry. I usually just wipe the oil off the old gasket and reuse it.

 

[pidgeon]

I was in a 76 Ford when the passenger side wheel sheered off because we didn't re-torque the nuts on an aluminum rim after doing a brake job. 55 miles an hour on a country road and the rear went *THUMP*, sparks flew out the back and we slid for about 100 yards before the driver was able to steer it onto the shoulder (not in the ditch, thankfully). I watched the rim fly off into the brush as I was holding on for dear life. Whatever you want to say about Fords, that Ford 9inch came out of it with nothing but a trashed hub and hub backing plate.

I wouldn't want to repeat that experience again. Certainly not in a deuce. I'm glad you caught this before it sheered off.

 

[davey8943]

DieselBob,

(again, not to hijack!) Looks like there is a discrepancy in the manuals.... TM 2320-361-24-1 pages 0147 00-2/3 state this:

Coat one side of new gasket (5) with GAA grease and align over holes in hub (6).
2. Carefully insert axle shaft (4) into hub (6) and axle housing (7). Turn axle shaft (4) until splines of
axle shaft (4) seat in differential. Align holes of flange (3) to holes in gasket (5) and hub (6).
3. Install flange (3) with eight new lockwashers (2) and screws (1). Tighten screws (1) 81–104 lb-ft
(110–189 N•m).
4. Connect battery ground cable (WP 0126 00).
5. Release parking brake and remove wheel chocks (TM 9-2320-361-10).


I have no idea which is right, but since 90 foot pounds destroys the gasket, sounds like your number is right!

Any input from people that have used both/either?

Dave

 

[doghead]

You should be able to apply literally TONS of pressure on a dry or greased(the grease is just used to "wet" it and hold it in place) paper gasket, and do no damage.


81-104 ft/lbs is a large percentage variable(20%+). I would expect the TM should call out a torque spec with about a 3-5% variable.


I would suggest 80 ft/lbs. A quick look at a bolt chart should tell you exactly what the bolt should have.


I looked quickly and found a grade 8, 1/2" course bolt max torque spec is 53 ft/lbs(lubricated) or 107 ft/lbs(dry).

 

[DieselBob]

81-104 ft/lbs is a large percentage variable(20%+). I would expect the TM should call out a torque spec with about a 3-5% variable.

I couldn't get over the spread for the torque on the lock nut for the wheel bearing the first time I looked for it

"3. Install adjusting nut washer (2) and outer adjusting nut (1). Tighten nut (1) 100-200 lb-ft"

 

[doghead]

DB, that procedure you posted, isn't it followed by, "back off 1/4 turn" or something like that? I believe the big variable there is only used in the preload(of the bearings), and after a 1/4 turn back off, the actual torque is almost nil.

Not really the same as the axle hub bolt situation.

 

[DieselBob]

DH, that is the torque spec for the outer lock nut. Not the nut that adjusts the bearing preload.

 

[Ord22]

another way of knowing your lugs are loose, if you see rusted water lines coming from your lug nuts, thats a good sign they're loose, also!

 

[lacoda56]

Just an old timer adding his two cents here. I was there when rtv sealant came out and we learned early on that you never under any circumstances, use rtv with a gasket, peroid. The rtv sealant will lock into the gasket and split it out while tightening. Either use a gasket OR rtv sealant, not both. And always use torque specs when available! Don't pick a random number and wonder why it doesn't work. Again, just my

 

[rchalmers3]

My thanks to the OP and the recommendation. I stepped outside for a moment and checked. My nuts are all fine, thank you. I hadn't checked them recently and feel much relieved after the inspection. I'm sure to rest better tonight.


Rick