California Title Registration Diesel Smog Law and GL loadout info for M35 Deuce 5 Ton

[maxtor]

Any links to more info?

shastacoordination.com will give you some information. Record Searchlight newspaper has information on the proposed delay.

http://www.calcontrk.org/

 

[jesusgatos]

Just finished reading this letter. Go Redding! Contact information at the bottom of the letter. Please write to express interest/support.

 

[maxtor]

I have gone to a few meetings. It looks like Redding will have a good chance of winning. They already have CARB making concessions.

 

[yamaha415]

I know this is a old thread, but I had a quick question that I didn't see answered in the 7 pages.

On the CA DMV Special License Plate Application form under section 2 where you select Historical Vehicle it says to attach copy of documentation and certify sections A, D or E. What are you guys using as "Documentation"? My 818 is on commercial non OP at the moment so it has already gone through the CA registration hoops.

Any help would be great so I could do a single trip to the wonderful DMV

 

[yamaha415]

I would have to read it in context to see what you speak of.
DO you have a link to the CA DMV form you speak of ?

http://apps.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg17a.pdf

See section 2 far right side of the page. On the second page under historical vehicles where it talks about parades, events, ect it say you need to have the certificate of title . I'm thinking this is probably what they mean by documentation, but just wanted to run it by the guys that had already done it. I have copies of everything I took into DMV originally to get it registered (Commercial Non-Opt) so I'll grab my folder just to be safe. Just want to be prepared for my tomorrow morning visit.

Thanks in advance

 

[blisters13]

I know this is a old thread, but I had a quick question that I didn't see answered in the 7 pages.

On the CA DMV Special License Plate Application form under section 2 where you select Historical Vehicle it says to attach copy of documentation and certify sections A, D or E. What are you guys using as "Documentation"? My 818 is on commercial non OP at the moment so it has already gone through the CA registration hoops.

Any help would be great so I could do a single trip to the wonderful DMV

This thread is mainly about how the diesel engine legislation being proposed/enforced by CARB affects registration, not general registration questions.

The following I found in about three minutes: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...ow-how-to-register-one&highlight=registration

 

[maxtor]

For me, I found that the only way I could register our M923A2 was to show that it was a 1989 which made it 25 years old, so it would qualify for historical plates. Historical plates are exempt from smog. If it was a 1990 or newer to 2009 it would have to be smog compliant and register as a commercial plate. Kalifornia smog rules change with the wind, but mostly get more strict, and less user friendly.

 

[Bunkerbuilder]

In response to the state and their stupid regulations getting in the way of a mans liberty.



Hale v. Henkel*
201 U.S. 43 (1906)

The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited.*

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/201/43/case.html

 

[BnaditCorps]

These laws make me wonder, why do we live in California?!

 

[quickfarms]

These laws make me wonder, why do we live in California?!

Because your parents live and work in California.

 

[Tracer]

These laws make me wonder, why do we live in California?!

Born raised and worked in California, retired to Nevada. You forgot mention the taxes!

 

[NovacaineFix]

Currently in the process of registering my '70 M818 5-ton the same way as Blendmaster, so far everything has gone according to plans, which is good.

Originally, DMV wanted $709 per year in combined fees, most of which were weight fees,to register the 818, plus VIN verification, plus certified weigh certificate from a authorized weigh-master, then bring everything back to DMV with no "real" guarantee that they would process it to be legal.

This was after I asked to have it registered as "Historic", but the clerk at the DMV did not hear that part or was not familiar.

I have a local DMV registration office just blocks from my house, and I explained the entire situation to them. They were very helpful and did all the leg-work including the VIN verification, which was basically walking out to the truck and reading the data plate back to them. Took less than 5 minutes.

Cost, for me, was $396 that included all transfer/title fees plus the registration and also got the temporary red sticker for driving until I get word back from Sacramento.
Currently, unless I hear otherwise, I am legal to drive until the end of November or further if my plates and stickers come in the mail.

I will update if anything changes.

 

[BnaditCorps]

Currently in the process of registering my '70 M818 5-ton the same way as Blendmaster, so far everything has gone according to plans, which is good.

Originally, DMV wanted $709 per year in combined fees, most of which were weight fees,to register the 818, plus VIN verification, plus certified weigh certificate from a authorized weigh-master, then bring everything back to DMV with no "real" guarantee that they would process it to be legal.
View attachment 587044
This was after I asked to have it registered as "Historic", but the clerk at the DMV did not hear that part or was not familiar.

I have a local DMV registration office just blocks from my house, and I explained the entire situation to them. They were very helpful and did all the leg-work including the VIN verification, which was basically walking out to the truck and reading the data plate back to them. Took less than 5 minutes.

Cost, for me, was $396 that included all transfer/title fees plus the registration and also got the temporary red sticker for driving until I get word back from Sacramento.
Currently, unless I hear otherwise, I am legal to drive until the end of November or further if my plates and stickers come in the mail.

I will update if anything changes.

nice

 

[Tracer]

Currently in the process of registering my '70 M818 5-ton the same way as Blendmaster, so far everything has gone according to plans, which is good.

Originally, DMV wanted $709 per year in combined fees, most of which were weight fees,to register the 818, plus VIN verification, plus certified weigh certificate from a authorized weigh-master, then bring everything back to DMV with no "real" guarantee that they would process it to be legal.
View attachment 587044
This was after I asked to have it registered as "Historic", but the clerk at the DMV did not hear that part or was not familiar.

I have a local DMV registration office just blocks from my house, and I explained the entire situation to them. They were very helpful and did all the leg-work including the VIN verification, which was basically walking out to the truck and reading the data plate back to them. Took less than 5 minutes.

Cost, for me, was $396 that included all transfer/title fees plus the registration and also got the temporary red sticker for driving until I get word back from Sacramento.
Currently, unless I hear otherwise, I am legal to drive until the end of November or further if my plates and stickers come in the mail.

I will update if anything changes.

Good news. Keep us posted.

 

[71DeuceAK]

So what I still don't understand is:  What's the registration and smog loophole (if any) for a M35A2 Deuce or M939 series 5 ton as a daily driver/commuter car and personal workhorse (firewood, trips to Home Depot for lumber) but nothing commercial (not a tour company, not for hire, not a taxi service of any kind, etc).  And how would one go about this?<br>And what about a non-resident (currently; I have Alaska residency) but still spending a decent amount of time in CA?<br><br>Just someone who has lived in CA in the past and plans to again, possibly with a '71 Deuce as a daily driver...who still doesn't totally understand the loopholes (or lack thereof LOL). 

 

[tim292stro]

Harder for a 939 series to be "all legal" under a Class-C unless you have the expansible van version (M934/M935) which you can register as an RV with appropriate fixtures inside (sleeping, cooking, bathroom). You can go historic, but you are limited in your use, unless you want to take your chances arguing that you are constantly exhibiting the truck as you drive it daily - and don't ever think of doing commercial work with it like that.

If you do a Deuce with regular registration you're over 12k-lbs empty, so you're in a higher vehicle weight class and your use fees go up. Still not "commercial" per say, but if you have three axles you fall under some other things that make it messy... Check out the driver's license specs for the state too - I know a lot of people get away with driving out of class (CVC 12500(d)) in California because no one is really looking most of the time, but I also know a few people who got caught and that one time hurt bad $$$. There is a reason "Bobbers" are very popular. Important to notice is that if you remove one axle from a three axle vehicle your max loaded weight goes from 6k-lbs up to 26k-lbs on a Class-C (the license most everybody gets here).

 

[71DeuceAK]

Interesting stuff!

So if I'm understanding the CA DMV website correctly, with a class A I could legally drive a Deuce, but is that a type of CDL? My understanding (Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken) is that the 2-1/2 ton M35 Deuce is supposed to fall under the gross weight requirements and having air-assist (not all-air) brakes also makes it exempt, but in most places/states for a M939 you'll need a CDL, right?

I know here in Alaska it's 26,000 lbs and then you need a CDL, but full air brakes over-ride that, and a M923 is about 22,000 lbs gross empty, right? But they have weird brakes anyway...these rules and regs are pretty confusing to a total newbie like myself.

As for "bobbing" can it be "undone" later and the 3rd axle reinstalled? (Like if I moved out of state later). And does that nix the need for a CDL for a Deuce or 5 ton?

 

[tim292stro]

So we can't turn this into a CDL thread or it'll get shut down - but read the DMV page I linked, that's what the law is...

Yes, to a certain extent bobbing can be undone (the spring pack in a Deuce may make this difficult). 5-tons have air brakes, Deuces have air-over hydraulic (hydraulic is the primary system, air is a "booster") - different requirements again.

If you want a mind bender, read the California Vehicle Codes, they are all online and more up to date than the printed versions. One of my favorite things is to find all of the undefined items in there. For instance, you will see the work "truck" a lot, but there is no legal definition for "truck" as a standalone entity. There's "tow truck", "motor truck", "pickup truck", etc... So you could probably go to court and get out of half of what they have written just on that - for instance "no trucks over 5 tons" what would that apply to if "truck" is not defined?

This is how Bill Clinton broke free from the sex scandal. "Define is" , and he could also say with a straight face: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" because the definition Ken Star gave for "sexual relations" did not include the act they performed... That's how the system works unfortunately.

 

[NovacaineFix]

So what I still don't understand is:  What's the registration and smog loophole (if any) for a M35A2 Deuce or M939 series 5 ton as a daily driver/commuter car and personal workhorse (firewood, trips to Home Depot for lumber) but nothing commercial (not a tour company, not for hire, not a taxi service of any kind, etc).  And how would one go about this?<br>And what about a non-resident (currently; I have Alaska residency) but still spending a decent amount of time in CA?<br><br>Just someone who has lived in CA in the past and plans to again, possibly with a '71 Deuce as a daily driver...who still doesn't totally understand the loopholes (or lack thereof LOL). 

Not really a loophole but a different way to register, but may not fit everybody's style.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but I wrote up a decent post about the process of CDL's and such, it is just a guideline, not to be taken as the law, because your local LEO may have a different view. The thread is just published facts that can be used to fortify your argument if you should get pulled over. Better to have the facts then just "assume", because ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law.

<Link to thread> http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?119524-Deuce-purchase-issue-in-California

Now as someone else mentioned, going the Historic Registration route has some pro's and con's. The major pro is that weight fees are not factored into the registration. My registration went from $709 for a 19,000 lb truck (empty) to about $139 or so. Big difference.
But it is not the way to go if you plan on driving your truck everyday, especially to home supply stores. If you were to get pulled over while having a truckload of lumber, it does not help your case much at all and can be misconstrued by a LEO that you are using it for commercial purposes.

The problem with California is that the wording is so broad in the vehicle code, that it often leaves MV's in the middle somewhere not clearly defined to what Class license you should have. In my opinion, for non-commercial vehicles, it should be as clear as Alaska's, 26,000 and under, Class C, regardless if it has air or not. Anything 26,001 and up, should fit in it's designated description and Class will needed accordingly.


As for your non-resident status, California sees it like this.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d6/c1/a1/12500
Basically saying, if you don't have a license, then your not legal to drive in California. The only requirements that need to be provided are financial obligation [insurance] as per DL 300 <link> https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/c870ae93-499c-4b0e-b1f4-0127d632aa1e/dl300.pdf?MOD=AJPERES


What is the price to register it on Alaska? If it is simpler and easier, then I would go that route. But if you don't have a reliable mailing address or your residency comes into question, be prepared to pay a little more in registration fees due to the weight. Not sure what the weight is on a 939 series, but it may be pushing it if it, is above 26,000 lbs.

 

[71DeuceAK]

Yeah I totally sympathize with not creating yet another "Do I need a CDL?" thread...there's more than enough of those already LOL
OK another total idiot newbie stupid question: What is a spring pack and what does it do? (Yeah, I'm that ignorant LOL, but been reading as much as I can and trying to immerse myself in it and absorb as much as possible in the next 6-7 months now).

As far as fun things in manuals like that, my personal favorite is looking for gramatical errors in translated-from-Chinese instruction manuals nowadays. End off-topic digression/tangent though...

But yeah no definition for "truck"...really? That's almost funny, it's stupid.

@NovacaineFix, Thanks for digging up some resources! It really is appreciated! I might consider Alaska but eventually I plan to fully move back to California year-round, but that won't be for quite a few years...

So, translation: I "technically" don't need a CDL for a Deuce since I'm not doing anything "commercial" but historic plates could be iffy if stopped while hauling anything, right?