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Calling on all Michigan Historic Military Vehicle Owners
- Thread starter LouWon
- Start date
Thank you TedCat, we will need all of the support we can get, if all of the MV owners would look at what is going on in the other states they would realize that all of the MV's are in the crosshair, some might think that the Humvees started this, they might of, but one way or the other anyone who has an MV will eventually be affected if we do not act now.
porkysplace
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Well as this proposed bill is written it doesn't do anything to prevent what happened in Virginia . Without including MIL-STD-1180B it still allows the SOS to require a FMVSS sticker for anything other than Historic Plates . And the SOS may very well do that to retaliate over having to register HMMWV's as Historic. This is clearly wrote only to benifit HMMWV's just look to the list of vehicle manufacturers they are listed 3 different ways but several common manufacturers of M35"s are no where to be found.
undysworld
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Porky,
It may well take more than one attempt to straighten this out, just like it did in Wis. The first bill to pass here was the one that created our Historic Military Vehicle license plates and forced all milvehs into that category. The problem? It only allowed driving them to parades and car shows.
The second bill to pass, later that same year, gave essentially full registration options to only four specific vehicles: Humvees (HMMWVs), Steyr-Puch Pinzgauers, Ducks (DUKWs), and Kaiser M-715 Jeep Pickups. Not really satisfactory!
But two years later, we got normal registration options for the smaller trucks restored.
Then two years after that we got the HMV registration changed to allow "occasional personal use" of all of them. No commercial use is allowed under HMV, but you can haul stuff for your own uses.
Now, we've got very favorable state laws for milvehs.
Here's my advice regarding legislation: Ask for the moon, and take what you can get. Then keep trying until you get what you need.
I fully understand your concerns over deuces not being included. FMVSS started in 1967 (most took effect in 196
, and weren't as strict for large trucks as they were for cars. Many of the early deuces were manufactured (1950-...) before FMVSS . IMHO, if the vehicle is older than 25yrs., it is federally exempted from FMVSS, and therefor so long as it meets the state's equipment requirements it should remain legal.Thank you undysworld, your positive support and comments are very well received, I hope that understanding will spread to other membersPorky,
It may well take more than one attempt to straighten this out, just like it did in Wis. The first bill to pass here was the one that created our Historic Military Vehicle license plates and forced all milvehs into that category. The problem? It only allowed driving them to parades and car shows.
The second bill to pass, later that same year, gave essentially full registration options to only four specific vehicles: Humvees (HMMWVs), Steyr-Puch Pinzgauers, Ducks (DUKWs), and Kaiser M-715 Jeep Pickups. Not really satisfactory!
But two years later, we got normal registration options for the smaller trucks restored.
Then two years after that we got the HMV registration changed to allow "occasional personal use" of all of them. No commercial use is allowed under HMV, but you can haul stuff for your own uses.
Now, we've got very favorable state laws for milvehs.
Here's my advice regarding legislation: Ask for the moon, and take what you can get. Then keep trying until you get what you need.
I fully understand your concerns over deuces not being included. FMVSS started in 1967 (most took effect in 196
porkysplace
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Well I don't see how risking throwing everybody else under the bus so they can register their HMWWV's is helping the MV community as a whole . There are currently no issues register any MV in michigan except HMWWV's . I have talked in length to the person mentioned in this thread from the MVCC and he is clueless to anything other than Historical plates and gave me the impression he could care less about registering other than historic. He went so far as to say you can haul anything you want and do whatever you want with historic plates. When in reality they are very restricted to club activities car shows and parades. I'm not the only one with these concerns they risking many people who use MV's in michigan commercially to make a living.Losing the use of their MV's in their businesses could put them out of business , because of one model MV not being registered or a half azzed plan to register them. Fortunately the vice chair of the senate transportation committee is from my district .Porky,
It may well take more than one attempt to straighten this out, just like it did in Wis. The first bill to pass here was the one that created our Historic Military Vehicle license plates and forced all milvehs into that category. The problem? It only allowed driving them to parades and car shows.
The second bill to pass, later that same year, gave essentially full registration options to only four specific vehicles: Humvees (HMMWVs), Steyr-Puch Pinzgauers, Ducks (DUKWs), and Kaiser M-715 Jeep Pickups. Not really satisfactory!
But two years later, we got normal registration options for the smaller trucks restored.
Then two years after that we got the HMV registration changed to allow "occasional personal use" of all of them. No commercial use is allowed under HMV, but you can haul stuff for your own uses.
Now, we've got very favorable state laws for milvehs.
Here's my advice regarding legislation: Ask for the moon, and take what you can get. Then keep trying until you get what you need.
I fully understand your concerns over deuces not being included. FMVSS started in 1967 (most took effect in 196
It's funny to see how the Humvee is being blamed for everything, I guess that the Humvee is not a military vehicle or it did not serve time in any war like any other ex military vehicle.
Yep, let's leave the Humvee behind instead of supporting it
Please support our cause for ALL MILTARY VEHILCLES, not just the chosen ones by selfish members
Yep, let's leave the Humvee behind instead of supporting it
Please support our cause for ALL MILTARY VEHILCLES, not just the chosen ones by selfish members
porkysplace
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No your cause only supports hobbyists not commercial users and big truck users who are not parade queens , also don't forget this letter.
Edit; So lets look at your thoughts on "selfish" how many HMWWV's are in michigan?
There were what around 800 sold nationwide in 99 and since GP has been selling them there has been a little over 4000 sold , so there are what maybe 150 michigan . I know of 3 farms that operate between 50 and 100, 5 tons each . Each one of these trucks employ a driver which pays taxes , the farm pays taxes , there are spin-off jobs like party stores gas stations restaurants from these farm truck drivers ( and this is only 3 businesses that use surplus MV's) . There are thousands of MV's used commercially in michigan all providing a living for their families , but it is more important to you to get a 100 or so HMWWV's registered than do it right the 1st time and protect these jobs . So who is the selfish MV owners?
Lets risk anything without a FMVSS being registered other than "historic" and risk ruining these peoples lives so you can drive your HMWWV . Let these businesses close because they can't afford to shut down for a couple years "while it gets straightened out" . Let these workers go on welfare when their unemployment runs out . Yep they are the selfish ones.
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Well it's time to move on and be more of this century, the deuce and the old jeeps where from your time, the new generation wants and will have Humvees
If you do not want to support us fine, but we are still going to support all ex MV's and the amendments to the Bill will protect former and new MV's, because sooner or later, they will come after yours, then who will be crying for changes in the law.
We are trying to keep this thread civilized and if you want to abandon ship, you are welcome to do so.
But for the rest of us, we will band together and see this trough, with or without your help or negative comments
And now back to business and supporting the amendments, no more bickering.
If you do not want to support us fine, but we are still going to support all ex MV's and the amendments to the Bill will protect former and new MV's, because sooner or later, they will come after yours, then who will be crying for changes in the law.
We are trying to keep this thread civilized and if you want to abandon ship, you are welcome to do so.
But for the rest of us, we will band together and see this trough, with or without your help or negative comments
And now back to business and supporting the amendments, no more bickering.
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porkysplace
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Well there is a great deal of owners that don't support this , and like you claim you have been asked to be a spokesman, well people have been reaching out to me who don't support this . And since this effects all MV owners in michigan we will be heard , we will be encouraging our reps to not support it as written . You can either come up with a good bill or you can continue to try and divide the MV community with your small fraction of owners. And without being a bipartisan bill it has no chance of passing.
porkysplace, while I get what you are saying, I have to ask what are you doing about it, you may be taking out your frustration on this thread but it won't get you anywhere.
You spoke with the people responsible for the amendments, they told you that your vehicle as well as all ex MV are covered in this amendments.
And according to your post's, you are not pleased with the current amendments
So here is my suggestion, why not be part of the solution.
How about you write up the part where the amendment does not fit your needs and submit them to Chuck
The Bill is still in review, so changes can be made. How do you feel about that.
You spoke with the people responsible for the amendments, they told you that your vehicle as well as all ex MV are covered in this amendments.
And according to your post's, you are not pleased with the current amendments
So here is my suggestion, why not be part of the solution.
How about you write up the part where the amendment does not fit your needs and submit them to Chuck
The Bill is still in review, so changes can be made. How do you feel about that.
porkysplace
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The amendments are only good for historic plates , and there is nothing stopping the SOS to require a FMVSS for all other plates whether older than 25 years or not . You poking the beehive at the SOS is going to end up doing the same thing that happened in Virginia .Chuck has no clue on anything newer than WWII or doing parades.I've told him what needs to be included MIL-STD-1180B and he has no idea what it is and no intentions of adding it . He also couldn't answer why the unrestricted use in august was crossed out for MV's in the begining, he was going to get back with me on that but blew it off . Your also throwing anybody with a LMTV newer than 1993 under the bus.
Edit : I will be contact my state senator ( the vice chair of the transportation committee along with some other members on it ) to make sure this never leaves committee as it is and provide them with all the information on HMWWV's I provided chuck.
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Understood. Then re-write the part where you have concerns and email it to him. It’s time to speak up
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porkysplace
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I will go straight to Senator Horn ,talking to Chuck is a waste of time , he don't care about people using them other than parades.
Like I said write it up, if you aren't certain of the terminology, don't worry , they have someone who will use the proper words
You are not wasting your time, your voice will be heard, but not on this thread.
This is a group effort.
Remember the pen is mightier than the sword
You are not wasting your time, your voice will be heard, but not on this thread.
This is a group effort.
Remember the pen is mightier than the sword
porkysplace
Well-known member
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Like I said I will send it to the transportation committee and let them add what is needed or squash it, it's pretty clear chuck don't care about outside of detroit . I actually missed a opportunity to meet with Senator Horn yesterday .
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Why not take a cue from Idaho?
0 49-458. MILITARY VEHICLES. Notwithstanding any provisions of law to
11 the contrary, a vehicle built for the United States armed forces may be reg-
12 istered and operated on public highways of this state,"
10 49-458. MI
0 49-458. MILITARY VEHICLES. Notwithstanding any provisions of law to
11 the contrary, a vehicle built for the United States armed forces may be reg-
12 istered and operated on public highways of this state,"
10 49-458. MI
Bob H
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I do not see where having the OPTION to register as historic has any effect on regular registrations.
The bill from a few years back that allowed for the plate not to be displayed on any MV that was kept to look as it was in the military did not adversely affect registering them with regular or commercial plates. I'll be seeing Chuck in a week or so & will review this proposal again. I have MV's registered both historic and commercial myself, & will likely never own a Humvee.
The bill from a few years back that allowed for the plate not to be displayed on any MV that was kept to look as it was in the military did not adversely affect registering them with regular or commercial plates. I'll be seeing Chuck in a week or so & will review this proposal again. I have MV's registered both historic and commercial myself, & will likely never own a Humvee.