Can’t get this to start…FIXED!!!

Floridianson

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Well no luck again, crank but no start. This time I am getting small puffs of white out of the stack.

Quick question,will the fuel pressure after the booster pump raise while cranking or only when running? I noticed my gauge on my secondary filters stays around 9psi while cranking., which is the same as my feed pump puts out.


I have never checked the cranking pressure of a known running truck. With just the 9 psi it still should fire up and idle at 30 psi.
 

Floridianson

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Ok a couple of things that button clip bothers me and I had to read your post again. You said you removed the plunger and plunger guide. The plunger and plunger guide can be put in 180* out of time. Hate to ask are your sure you got that back just the way it came apart? The drive gear with the red scribe should be just like it was when you took the head out. Red scribe on head pointer. Then when you twist the head over just enough to see the plunger guide you should just be able to see the writing on the plunger guide under the drive gear cover cap. I forget what all of it said but in the pic you can see the ALI which is align and PLUN which is plunger. So bottom line your head / plunger / drive gear must look like in the pic. Seeking Advice on Replacing HH O-Rings in the Truck | Page 3 | SteelSoldiers
 
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DaneGer21

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Ok a couple of things that button clip bothers me and I had to read your post again. You said you removed the plunger and plunger guide. The plunger and plunger guide can be put in 180* out of time. Hate to ask are your sure you got that back just the way it came apart? The drive gear with the red scribe should be just like it was when you took the head out. Red scribe on head pointer. Then when you twist the head over just enough to see the plunger guide you should just be able to see the writing on the plunger guide under the drive gear cover cap. I forget what all of it said but in the pic you can see the ALI which is align and PLUN which is plunger. So bottom line your head / plunger / drive gear must look like in the pic. Seeking Advice on Replacing HH O-Rings in the Truck | Page 3 | SteelSoldiers
To be honest, I would like to think I got it reassembled the same way, but unfortunately I can’t say for sure now that it’s back in the truck.

I do remember lining up the “bread loaf” on the plunger to the guide so I assumed it was correct. Then the guide only goes into the gear one way because of the little nipple. Maybe I missed something; I am a newbie. Haha

One thing I didn’t like was how much up/down slop the plunger had even when everything, spring and all was out back together. And yes, that one spacer/thrust washer was between the gear and the head. But to me it just felt like something was missing and allowing that. Or, that’s how it’s supposed to be.

Worst case I’m pretty fluent now in removing the HH in about an hour, so if I have to I can remove and take any need pics or video.

thanks!
 
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WillWagner

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I do not believe the white is smoke in his video. It does not hang around, it fades away. Pull a sample of fuel into a clean, clear vessel, a dry water bottle works well, from the bottom of the tank. Let it sit overnite and see what it looks like. Could have a good amount of water in it. Won't hurt to rule it out.
 

DaneGer21

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I do not believe the white is smoke in his video. It does not hang around, it fades away. Pull a sample of fuel into a clean, clear vessel, a dry water bottle works well, from the bottom of the tank. Let it sit overnite and see what it looks like. Could have a good amount of water in it. Won't hurt to rule it out.
Unless that’s old residue from the injector lines or in the cylinders(hopefully not a bad head gasket) the fuel systems has been completely gone through up to the IP.

I removed the tank completely, cleaned, acid washed, rinsed, all multiple times. Let dry and then used a shop vac for any remaining particles. The inside of the tank was then sealed. Each filter assembly, primary and both secondaries were taken off and cleaned, canisters and heads, then new filters installed.

Once everything was reinstalled, I went to the fuel station and got five fresh gallons from the pump. I added 5ozs of 2stroke oil, and 5ozs of Diesel Clean(injector cleaner).

I guess anything is possible
 
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Floridianson

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I do not know what a bread loaf is in a deuce IP and I am just passing on about the plunger and plunger guide from another members post. He some how got the plunger guide and plunger off when he assembled them. I do not have my extra head anymore or I would take it apart and see how it could be put together wrong. Yes there is a tab on one side but if you flip the plunger guide over left to right and the lettering would be down and the tab would still line up to where it goes but plunger might be on wrong stroke. As said and I looked for that thread where the member put it back together wrong and had to go back in and correct plunger and plunger guide. He corrected his truck and it fired right up. So just throwing it out there. Good luck
 
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DaneGer21

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I do not know what a bread loaf is in a deuce IP and I am just passing on about the plunger and plunger guide from another members post. He some how got the plunger guide and plunger off when he assembled them. I do not have my extra head anymore or I would take it apart and see how it could be put together wrong. Yes there is a tab on one side but if you flip the plunger guide over left to right and the lettering would be down and the tab would still line up to where it goes but plunger might be on wrong stroke. As said and I looked for that thread where the member put it back together wrong and had to go back in and correct plunger and plunger guide. He corrected his truck and it fired right up. So just throwing it out there. Good luck
I just seen the “bread loaf” term used in another YouTube video. It was used to describe how the plunger and guide is cut. Three sides are straight cut and one side is rounded, so it make it look like a bread loaf from the side haha
 

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DaneGer21

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Had a few hours to burn tonight, so I pulled the HH. The button and 3prong clip were still attached like they should. The plunger guide’s writing was facing out like mentioned above so that was good. I disassembled everything again and cleaned it. All passages were free and clear and flushed nicely. I reassembled everything. Took it to the truck, lined up the red tooth and the pointer, and it dropped right in. Bolted everything down, and reinstalled all the lines.

Turned on power, cracked the fuel line at the HH inlet. Bled until I had fuel. I left power on for 5mins to cycle fuel. I then cracked the 3/4” bolt on top of the HH, with power on still, I got a few dozen small air bubbles. Once it cleared i tighter it down. I then let it sit and cycle for another 3-5mins.

I cranked and cranked, but I was being easy on the starter also. 10secs here, 15secs there, then take a break. I always kept the power on during this whole time. I tried maybe 20 times; crank no start.

This time I had NO vapor/smoke from the stack.

I took about a 10min break because I was getting frustrated. Came back, decided to crack and remove the #3 injector line at the HH because it’s the easiest to get to. It was completely removed, I cranked and cranked. Absolutely NOTHING came out of that injector hole, but I know for sure it flows good and isn’t clogged.

It’s very late and I gotta work in the AM. I’m defeated for the evening but I guess there’s always tomorrow.
 

cattlerepairman

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The HH gurus will chime in, but I would be wondering about plunger wear in the HH and inability to build pressure. The booster pump on the IP may also warrant a look; does it supply fuel to the HH at the pressure required?
At this point it would be helpful to have a spare HH on hand to swap in and see if she fires right up with that.
 

DaneGer21

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The HH gurus will chime in, but I would be wondering about plunger wear in the HH and inability to build pressure. The booster pump on the IP may also warrant a look; does it supply fuel to the HH at the pressure required?
At this point it would be helpful to have a spare HH on hand to swap in and see if she fires right up with that.
Next time I pull out the HH I’ll take a video. When assembled on the bench it does spin fairly easy, gear and all. So wear could be a good guess.

Something else I noticed is the up/down slop of the entire assembly when assembled on the bench also. Hard to explain I guess.

As for the booster, I have not looked at that yet. I have a gauge on top of the secondaries, after all the cranking and cranking it never went above what the tank pump was supplying, which is between 7-9psi. I don’t know how else to check it, specs listed is while running.
 

WillWagner

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Pintle style injectors can stick open. When they do, the compression will be pushed back through the nozzle and into the pump. Maybe try cracking one injector line at a time then try firing it. Don't you love internet troubleshooting?
 

DaneGer21

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I found a used hydraulic head for $100. It will be removed from an injection pump that was removed from a truck and labeled as “leaking from top”. He was asking $300 for the entire pump but wasn’t willing to ship it because of weight. He said he would remove and ship only the HH for $100.

Should I buy it? Because of the price. Or should I consider a new reproduction one?
 
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cattlerepairman

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Crapshoot. The used one is quick to get and relaively cheap. "Leaking from top" may be from an old O-ring or a deformed injection line ferrule. A non-issue. Or from a cracked head. Useless beyond using it for testing.
I have one of the Chinese aftermarked heads (the ones that our gurus here reviewed) and can only say good things. It has a better, stronger, button and clip. I dropped it in and it did exactly what it is supposed to do. And it is brand new. My vote would be for that one.
 
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DaneGer21

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On my way home from work this evening I stopped at Napa and picked up a fresh can of starting fluid. I made zero changes from where I left off.

Anyways, I turned on my main power, I let fuel cycle for 2mins, I sprayed three small puffs into the turbo. Then I hit the Start button, she obviously came alive and “”ran”” for about 3-5secs then shut off. I tried this about a total of five times. All with the same result, she would take off, running of starting fluid, but then die once it’s used up.

After these consecutive “”starts”” I thought I would see a fuel pressure increase from the booster side. I did NOT and it seemed to stay at the low side supply psi of 7-9psi. I was hoping by spinning the engine up I could see the supposed increase.

Maybe I’ll look into removing the booster pump. Anyone know the correct TM for removal? Or the easiest way to get to it? What all can I look for when it’s apart?
 

Floridianson

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Even though we do not have to bleed the injectors on the Deuce would seem like if the Head was getting any flow of fuel you should have gotten something when you cracked the injectors. I have started and it idled without the secondary fuel filter over pressure valve in the truck. Showing we do not need high pressure but some flow of fuel to the head for it just to start and at least idle. Do you think any crud got back into the delivery valve? It is a easy enough thing to check with the head on. The only other thing I can think of is the little pin that goes into the plunger sleeve from the fuel control unit assembly is not there. Have to ask was the plunger sleeve moving free on the plunger shaft when you put the head back together. The test for sleeve free movement is when we have the head out we turn the head up side down and sleeve should slide down the plunger shaft by it's self.
 
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DaneGer21

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Even though we do not have to bleed the injectors on the Deuce would seem like if the Head was getting any flow of fuel you should have gotten something when you cracked the injectors. I have started and it idled without the secondary fuel filter over pressure valve in the truck. Showing we do not need high pressure but some flow of fuel to the head for it just to start and at least idle. Do you think any crud got back into the delivery valve? It is a easy enough thing to check with the head on. The only other thing I can think of is the little pin that goes into the plunger sleeve from the fuel control unit assembly is not there. Have to ask was the plunger sleeve moving free on the plunger shaft when you put the head back together. The test for sleeve free movement is when we have the head out we turn the head up side down and sleeve should slide down the plunger shaft by it's self.
I’ll pull the fuel delivery valve again this evening and give it another flush.

The little “nub/pin” is on the end of the fuel control rod.

The fuel shutoff block does slide freely and moves under its own weight.
 
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