Can’t get this to start…FIXED!!!

[DaneGer21]

[QUOTE="fleetmech
Sorry if you've answered any of this before but... have you confirmed fuel is 100% getting to the injection pump inlet in good quantity?
I think so
Do you get any fuel even drooling out of the delivery valve hole if you crank it with the dv removed?
Yes, even without cranking fuel will come out when loosened and power is on.
when you changed the HH, has it been full of fuel?
It came off a blown engine, the guy was parting everything out. So at one time it was a good HH.
If we now assume that the pump is spinning as it should, we need to ascertain how far fuel is making it through the system/ pump. Even if the lobe is severely worn, fuel should be circulating through almost everywhere, especially with the injector lines removed. I would suspect that even at lift/ booster pump pressure fuel should at least be making its way tot he dv area. If its not, either the rack is jammed or held 'off' or there is a major plug internally. if the whole thing is full to the brim with fuel, then its either not building even the slightest pressure, or its blowing off the fuel, maybe through the overflow and into the return.
With power ON and engine OFF(obviously haha), If I removed the inlet line to the HH I have fuel. If I remove the return/overflow line on the HH I have fuel. If I removed the delivery valve screw I have fuel. If I remove the 3/4” bolt on top of the HH I have fuel. If I put my ear at the fuel tank I have fuel returning to the tank
It think that’s everything ^^[/QUOTE]

 

[Floridianson]

Well we really don't not have a rack when I think of a rack system even though the TM calls it that. When I think of an older Detroit that has a separate governor tied to a bar and that bar controls each injector. From there we would set the rack adjusting every injector so the same amount of fuel is injected per injector plus Run the Rack making sure each injector is going to full rack when needed. We have a plunger sleeve that rides on the plunger. The plunger sleeve blocks the spill port on the plunger longer during the plunger stroke to hold /inject more fuel. Less time blocked less fuel or all the way down or no blockage shut off. You can leave the timing cover fuel rod assembly ( shut down cover) off when trying to start to be sure it is in the 7 o clock position when cranking. If for some reason it started we can just use our finger and push fuel control unit assembly back and it will shut down. Believe you said plunger sleeve was sliding free and fuel control unit assembly is moving free from 7 o clock to 4 o clock and installed correct ( pin engaged with sleeve ) and fuel control is at 7 o clock when engine is not running. Governor will then pull it back to idle when it starts.

 

[DaneGer21]

So after speaking to @Elk1111 Friday on the phone and then texting again last night he had me bypass the lines/filters/etc using a fuel can and a small section of hose.

After keeping the engine running with ether for about 30secs, using small puffs to keep it going. The IP/booster pulled fuel up and out of the container, and then I was FINALLY able to see a fuel pressure increase at the secondary fuel filter gauge I installed. Unfortunately that’s right at the time I ran out of ether.

I think I’m getting somewhere…but…

Maybe a pinched line?
Maybe a fuel/air leak?
Maybe losing prime and keep introducing air from “said” leak?

More things to look at but I at least feel better knowing the pressure finally increased going to the HH!

 

[Floridianson]

Pinched line start looking and that copper line from primary to rubber IP maybe first. Air maybe rubber hose in tank. I feel its wanting to run so keep going with the adventure.

 

[DaneGer21]

Pinched line start looking and that copper line from primary to rubber IP maybe first. Air maybe rubber hose in tank. I feel its wanting to run so keep going with the adventure.

I did replace the rubber line inside the fuel tank so I know that’s good.

I’ll order and replace the rubber line/s since they’re fairly cheap and easy.


I might have time this afternoon to investigate, but I gotta cut/split firewood at some point, customers have been asking me haha

 

[Floridianson]

Me still thinking and brain starting to hurt. OK the overflow valve is on the return side of the head. That helps to maintain the fuel pressure that the booster puts out. Easy check remove cap do not loose spring and remove valve. Turn on in tank check for trash and check small hole that is in valve is open. Still grabbing at straws here I would like to check over pressure valve that is part of the T fitting on the secondary fuel canister. You might be able to remove the cap and spring and remove the valve and see if something is holding it open. Now since to check if the over pressure is holding at all pressures the truck does need to be running. That being said yea I know your truck is not running but we can check to see if it is open. If you removed the line from the T that comes from the head and turned on the in tank pump while holding you finger to block off the line from head and no fuel should be coming out of the open port at the T. If it does then the over pressure valve is stuck open. In most case just removing the over pressure valve and cleaning it does the trick. If we wanted to check to see if the over pressure valve was getting weak and opening before we got to our 60 min. at high idle pressure then we would need a running truck. Here we would disconnect both lines from the T and connect them together. Then start the running truck and running up the RPM see if we have fuel leaking out of the over pressure valve.

 

[DaneGer21]

Me still thinking and brain starting to hurt. OK the overflow valve is on the return side of the head. That helps to maintain the fuel pressure that the booster puts out. Easy check remove cap do not loose spring and remove valve. Turn on in tank check for trash and check small hole that is in valve is open. Still grabbing at straws here I would like to check over pressure valve that is part of the T fitting on the secondary fuel canister. You might be able to remove the cap and spring and remove the valve and see if something is holding it open. Now since to check if the over pressure is holding at all pressures the truck does need to be running. That being said yea I know your truck is not running but we can check to see if it is open. If you removed the line from the T that comes from the head and turned on the in tank pump while holding you finger to block off the line from head and no fuel should be coming out of the open port at the T. If it does then the over pressure valve is stuck open. In most case just removing the over pressure valve and cleaning it does the trick. If we wanted to check to see if the over pressure valve was getting weak and opening before we got to our 60 min. at high idle pressure then we would need a running truck. Here we would disconnect both lines from the T and connect them together. Then start the running truck and running up the RPM see if we have fuel leaking out of the over pressure valve.

I have had both the overflow valve, and the over pressure valve apart. Since it’s easy, and possible that something has dislodged from the nasty lines. I will disassemble and clean.

 

[DaneGer21]

Tonight I checked the fuel lines. No pinched line. I disconnected the booster pump inlet. I turned on power and flushed 2gals through. I then disconnected the inlet to the HH and again flushed roughly 4gals.

I hooked everything up, had my wife hit the start button while I used the ether. I kept it running on ether until she told me the fuel pressure climbed up to 45psi in the secondaries.

At that point I stopped spraying. And guess what, she died. Fuel pressure immediately dropped. I cranked and cranked, fuel pressure never climbed and she never started.

I gave up gave up when I seen the primary housing develop a fuel leak.

Another few weeks and she might get scraped!!!

 

[Elk1111]

If the primary is leaking fuel then it’s also sucking in air..

 

[DaneGer21]

If the primary is leaking fuel then it’s also sucking in air..

It has only just began. Literally out of nowhere. I’ll get it fixed try again

 

[DaneGer21]

I have removed the main copper line from the tank to the primary filter. I have removed the entire primary filter head/housing. I have also removed the copper line from the primary to the booster.

I will be replacing all the copper with a DOT air/fuel line. All new fittings. And a new aftermarket primary filter setup.(The original filter head was in rough shape and needed replaced anyways).

Still gathering some parts for the install, but wanted to update the thread. This should guarantee a leak free setup with this “updated fuel line system”.

 

[davidb56]

I guess the only way to find out if the IP/booster pump is failing, is to apply 40psi fuel pressure to the inlet. It would be nice if you could find a good used high pressure in line pump to test it. Something like this? https://www.speedwaymotors.com/MSD-...6894340&utm_content=All Products (Feb28_2020)

 

[davidb56]

I guess the only way to find out if the IP/booster pump is failing, is to apply 40psi fuel pressure to the inlet. It would be nice if you could find a good used high pressure in line pump to test it. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/MSD-2225-In-Line-Hi-Pressure-Fuel-Pump,31226.

 

[davidb56]

Sorry for the double posts, as Im adjusting to blood thinners to remove a bunch of blood clots and I get the shakes.

 

[DaneGer21]

Wanted to share a little good news that’s somewhat related to this truck haha. Although I’m still working on the fuel system and that side of things. The original owner reached out to me. He has found a spare starter, multiple electrical connectors, the mushroom looking “precleaner” for the intake that’s on the outside passenger front fender(it was MIA when purchased), and also a mounted “super single”.

So although I haven’t gotten the truck to start;yet, I somehow keep acquiring parts haha!

 

[Elk1111]

Careful...sometimes those parts tend to grow into truck number 2...

 

[Floridianson]

I guess the only way to find out if the IP/booster pump is failing, is to apply 40psi fuel pressure to the inlet. It would be nice if you could find a good used high pressure in line pump to test it. Something like this?

Might as well go to the 60 psi that the TM calls for if you were to test the booster seals.

 

[davidb56]

Maybe rig up a gas tank that has the 60psi fuel pump for FI gas engines and just put diesel in it. Probably could get one from a parts car cheap.

 

[DaneGer21]

I’m hoping to have all the new lines and filter assembly installed tomorrow evening. The local Napa guy didn’t have one 90 degree fitting I wanted, but he should have it tomorrow. I could have made something else work but more fittings and more $$ so I opted to wait a day or so, mainly so it would look better and not cobbled together.

 

[ToddJK]

I read this entire post. From my experience, air is a big problem in the fuel delivery system. I had a fuel filter that was sucking in air and had a ever so slightly leak due to a tiny little tear in that rubber seal. The truck didn't want to start and when it did it took forever and lots of cranking to get it started. However, even with an air leak, it would still run. When I rebuilt the motor in my old truck due to blown head gasket, I used 3 cans of either to get it started and to keep it running. There was lots of air in the system, even after I bled what I could but I had all the lines apart, injectors pulled, everything.
If you do all this work and the truck still doesn't run, don't call it quits. Maybe look for a mechanic who works on farm equipment, good chance they work on old farm equipment and if they do, they will know how the IP works on the deuce. Get a quote to see if they rebuild the entire IP, how much it'll run you. A new pump is $2k or better now days from what I've seen.
Also, when you seat that delivery valve cover bolt, is that little spring in there putting tension on the valve? Did you tighten that bolt 2-3 times over to make sure it is sealing? Otherwise it'll do what mine did, leak and or suck in air. If that bolt has a hairline crack in the mating surface, it'll leak fuel and suck in air. I know you mentioned loosening it and removing it a few times so that's why I asked.
You mentioned you bypassed the fdc and the flame heater, you sure all the lines that were removed, all the plugs are good and tight and if there is a line that is supposed to be re routed back to the IP isn't plugged thus causing the lack of fuel pressure during start up? I've never done it myself but only watched a few YT videos including Tactical Repair when he explained these two modifications.
Sometimes it's amazing how such a stupid simple issue creates a huge issue yet is an easy fix. I hope you get your truck running. I have to follow your post now to see the outcome. I wish the best of luck to you hope to see a video of the beast running!