Can anyone id this tranny?

[ianfotheringham]

Anyone have any certainty as to what model this tranny is? Let me know if you need me to check any numbers or supply pics of other angles...

 

[ianfotheringham]

Similarly, this is the pto that came off it, made by Chelsea, model S, oriented to the rear for a chain drive winch that had been mourned in the bed, tow truck style... Wondering why both gears are slanted, where the factory pto had one slanted, one square....?

 

[doghead]

Just a guess, Canadian Acme Model T-98.

 

[ianfotheringham]

That would make sense, being a Canadian truck... In Canada.... Any way to confirm?

 

[swbradley1]

I thought it was a T-98 as well but if you look at images of one you will see that this transmission does not have the front section like a T-98 does and the shifter is farther forward. Since we drove to Louisville to get one for my Brother's Ditch Witch I have been becoming more familiar with them.

that being said is the Canadian one somehow different?

T-98

 

[TGP (IL)]

Looks like a New Process NP420
From what I can tell.
The other side would help.
Tom

 

[ianfotheringham]

Here you go... The input shaft is a ten spline by the way... The 4678/M is the only making I could find, there may be others under the crud... Just not sure where to look...

 

[gringeltaube]

It's not a std. Borg Warner T-98 and it's definitely not a NP420!

Very likely the Canadian ACME-made T-98, as Doghead said.
This thread has many pics and info about it, and to me it looks identical to the one in question.


G.

 

[swbradley1]

Yeah G. Google didn't give me an image of an ACME T-98. The one from the Garden Gnome of the north's thread shows it.

 

[TGP (IL)]

I stand corrected.
Tom

 

[doghead]

In post # 22 of the link G provided, I can see the same(467 casting number on the trans(pics) as the op said he has.

 

[Juskatla]

The Acme T98 fitted to M37CDN trucks behind the 251 uses an Acme PTO. The difference in the US and Acme ptos is the idler gear. The idler mates with the gear in the transmission. Your pto has the helical gear to mate with the transmission and the other gear runs into whatever is in the pto. I would be interested in more about your Chelsea pto as the ACME ones are very hard to find. You can check out G741 for more discussion on the Acme t98 and ptos. Acme T98 parts are common to some International transmissions and a good transmission shop can provide the syncro rings.

The Acme T98 is considered by some to be a superior transmission but are limited to M37CDN and whatever spares are around. You will have local resources in Ontario that can help out. G741 forum and Maple Leaf Up both have Canadian members. I have 4 M37CDN trucks out here on the west coast.

Jess

 

[Juskatla]

This is the idler gear from an ACME pto. The helical gear mates to your transmission. Somewhere I have pics of the Acme T98 also, but have to look if its still of interest to you. The Chelsea pto has the same helical gear that fits into the transmission. I think the Jeep M trucks have a similar transmission and use a Chelsea pto but I can't confirm that.

Jess

edit: Not sure the pic worked but can email it to somebody who can post it....

 

[Juskatla]

Can you post a couple of pics of your Chelsea PTO, if its fitted on the Acme T98 it would give anyone with an M37CDN another alternative to the Acme pto. I have a spare Acme T98 and Acme pto on the floor if you still need to confirm what yours is. Let me know here or by PM.

Jess

 

[ianfotheringham]

Here some are... The only marking on it, is that it's a model 's'... it's not exactly the same as the other one on my truck... Same color and covers, only one is set to output to the rear, mine to the front, different actuator assembly as well... And have tried either out.... New to me ...

 

[Juskatla]

Similarly, this is the pto that came off it, made by Chelsea, model S, oriented to the rear for a chain drive winch that had been mourned in the bed, tow truck style... Wondering why both gears are slanted, where the factory pto had one slanted, one square....? View attachment 547263View attachment 547264

The helical gear fits the transmission 3rd gear IIRC, the other gear on the US pto and the Acme pto is square cut and runs to the slider gear in the pto. The Chelsea would have a different design, Not being familiar with the Chelsea S or seeing an exploded view makes me wonder how it is disengaged. I will look at my Acme t98 and check the other casting numbers you posted for it. If it is an Acme T98, then the Chelsea S would be worth further investigation. Did it fit in the driver side opening on the transmission.

Jess

Edit - I know the M715 used a Chelsea pto, and a version of the T98, so maybe it came from that application. I tried the M715 Forum but have not found any info on the pto for that application yet.

 

[ianfotheringham]

Yes it did... There aren't any mounts on the other side...

 

[Juskatla]

Thanks, I have been on a long quest for either parts to repair or replace the Acme pto idler as its the only part difference from the US pto. It was in aid of another friend in Churchill Manitoba who had a transmission failure and broke a tooth on the Acme pto. After a lengthy and fruitless search, I sent him the idler gear out of my pto and it was used as the master to produce another gear somewhere in the US, south of Ontario. None of the gear cutters out here on the west coast were interested. Unfortunately, that new gear ran noisy and eventually I found another take out pto locally and Bill made a reasonable deal for it. Your Chelsea is the only one I have seen or heard of used on an M37 so is of interest as an alternative. Facing the rear may be an issue but there may also be a forward facing version. Finding one is another challenge. Once we figure out where all the CDN parts went after disposal, there will be a few idler gears and then the problem will be solved as a US pto could be converted.

Thanks for the information. I have some experience and contacts for M37CDN stuff, so let me know if we can help. Also, join us over on the G741 Forum as there are a few of us Canuks over ther and it is an all M37 site. Some of those that frequent this site also get over there from time to time. Parts in Ontario are available locally. PM me for the vendors name and contact.

Jess

 

[ianfotheringham]

Thanks, I have been on a long quest for either parts to repair or replace the Acme pto idler as its the only part difference from the US pto. It was in aid of another friend in Churchill Manitoba who had a transmission failure and broke a tooth on the Acme pto. After a lengthy and fruitless search, I sent him the idler gear out of my pto and it was used as the master to produce another gear somewhere in the US, south of Ontario. None of the gear cutters out here on the west coast were interested. Unfortunately, that new gear ran noisy and eventually I found another take out pto locally and Bill made a reasonable deal for it. Your Chelsea is the only one I have seen or heard of used on an M37 so is of interest as an alternative. Facing the rear may be an issue but there may also be a forward facing version. Finding one is another challenge. Once we figure out where all the CDN parts went after disposal, there will be a few idler gears and then the problem will be solved as a US pto could be converted.

Thanks for the information. I have some experience and contacts for M37CDN stuff, so let me know if we can help. Also, join us over on the G741 Forum as there are a few of us Canuks over ther and it is an all M37 site. Some of those that frequent this site also get over there from time to time. Parts in Ontario are available locally. PM me for the vendors name and contact.

Jess

Excellent to know there's help out there... Got to love the Internet... Ate you talking about Brian Ashby? Looks as tho I'll be trading that pto, the tranny and some other bits to guy in Ottawa (Marc?) for some windshields a steering wheel and some weatherstripping, but will get your a better pic of my pto, just sandblasted this morning....

 

[Juskatla]

Yes, it is Brian Asbury and Marc has posted with parts too. Every forum has different rules about dealers so I did not post his particulars. There is also a few guys on the MLU forum that are into post WW2 vehicles. I have some parts on the way from Brian this week. I am doing brakes, the steering idler and a couple of other things he could help out with. If you need a copy the CDN Repair Manual, left me know and I will try to get something out to you. Brian has all that stuff too.

Have fun and keep us posted on your progress. Its well into Spring out here, so a looking to get on with some repairs and painting. I just had a bunch of wheels blasted, primed and ready to paint. In the next couple of weeks, I will get them painted and new tires mounted. First since I bought this truck in 1977. Tires were all 1964 and still holding air... Goodyear made tire in Canada in those days.

Jess