CDL

[kcimb]

Any Texans here who have a 5-ton and use it for towing toys around?

 

[ida34]

Commercial drivers licenses are for driving commercial vehicles, which are defined by their weight, not their use. Even for personal use you need a CDL for vehicles over 26000 GVW.

The above statement is not correct. Use has everything to do with it and if you are not in engaged in commerce you are not Federally required to have a CDL to drive a truck that would require a CDL if you were operating commercially. In several states a vehicle used for you personally moving your own stuff (not to sell) is exempted from the requirement of having to have a CDL. I am the one that writes tickets for this so consider the source. Do a search and you will find at least 3 posts in which I have posted Michigan Law regarding this with the pertinent information highlighted.

 

[ida34]

Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or

(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or

(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or

(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

 

[ida34]

This is taken from the Federal commercial vehicle definitions section.

 

[dma251]

So does anyone know about the laws in Washington State?

Honestly, I don't have a CDL and I am not about to get one, regardless. I have driven my Deuce, 5-ton, and HEMTT past more cops and gotten the thumbs up and a big smile I am not worried a bit.

I did briefly look at the codes, and I think there is enough grey area to get by. My hemtt is definitely not used for commercial purposes, as the freshly painted bed can attest. I doubt it weighs any more then a lot of the big RV's out there driven by AARP members across the country.... What makes them any different? They use airbrakes, and are just as big.

I think the best thing I ever did was get familiar with the best traffic lawyer in my area. This guy has gotten me out of 6 tickets in the last couple years. Some I was speeding, some I wasn't. All of them were dismissed - including one for 82mph in a 60 on the freeway by the Washington State Patrol - measured with Laser... That's a tough ticket to get out of.

He even teachs ballroom dancing!
http://www.jmmesq.com/

 

[sprucemt]

Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or

(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or

(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or

(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

This is only one part in one section. Please post the other definitions in the other sections.
As I have already stated in this post, In New York there is no choice. If you drive a unit over 26000# a cdl is the only option. There is no other type drivers license

 

[newt]

Ida, your beating a dead horse. We're only the trained experts on the law.

 

[CGarbee]

I've posted about this elsewhere (and I'll do a search and will see if I can find it for a cut and paste here...), but in North Carolina, you get a NON-Commercial class A, B, or C (C being the defualt that everyone gets when they go in for a "regular license to drive a car/pickup, etc) that is based upon weight of the truck/trailer. You get a CDL in a class A, B, or C (C when you are driving a van as a courier, UPS driver, hauling explosives, etc.) if you are getting compensated.
The definitions used for determining Commercial use that Chuck posted above are applicable in North Carolina.

The testing and fees for a CDL or Non-CDL permit are the same, so the question of which one to get for a person collecting MV's depends on your plans...

Personally, I have a CDL class A...

One of the hats that I were at my day job is as a CDL instructor for the new hires...

 

[sprucemt]

Ida, your beating a dead horse. We're only the trained experts on the law.

New Jersey requires a cdl. There is no "non-commercial" class of licence.

In Michigan you need a chauffer lic and or a cdl unless,
Individuals: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes.


All the states driver license requirements are different. The feds and the fmcfr do not regulate state licensing, the states do.
Thats the point.

 

[dm22630]

New Jersey requires a cdl. There is no "non-commercial" class of licence.

In Michigan you need a chauffer lic and or a cdl unless,
Individuals: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes.


All the states driver license requirements are different. The feds and the fmcfr do not regulate state licensing, the states do.
Thats the point.

So....since all states are different (as they are with lots of laws, including vehicular ones), a person would only have to meet THEIR states specific requirements, and they would be legal to drive everywhere?

I.E. --- In VA, they do not allow dark tinted windows or trucks with body lifts over a certain height. BUT.....I have been told by numerous LEOs that I have done ride-a-longs with, that they cant write them since the car is registered out of state.

AND....I am sure that every single state does not have the non-cdl laws for motorhome drivers. YET....people drive them across the country with a regular license (no added classes personal or commercial) with zero problems. I have read here that the state of California requires a CDL to drive a deuce......so if I drove my deuce there, are you telling me that they would pull me over & not let me drive off since I dont have a CDL?

As long as it is for PERSONAL USE & not commercial use....the vehicle falls under "recreational vehicle" exemptions. No CDL or special class in required in VA where I live.

 

[sprucemt]

New Jersey requires a cdl. There is no "non-commercial" class of licence.

In Michigan you need a chauffer lic and or a cdl unless,
Individuals: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes.


All the states driver license requirements are different. The feds and the fmcfr do not regulate state licensing, the states do.
Thats the point.

So....since all states are different (as they are with lots of laws, including vehicular ones), a person would only have to meet THEIR states specific requirements, and they would be legal to drive everywhere?

I.E. --- In VA, they do not allow dark tinted windows or trucks with body lifts over a certain height. BUT.....I have been told by numerous LEOs that I have done ride-a-longs with, that they cant write them since the car is registered out of state.

AND....I am sure that every single state does not have the non-cdl laws for motorhome drivers. YET....people drive them across the country with a regular license (no added classes personal or commercial) with zero problems. I have read here that the state of California requires a CDL to drive a deuce......so if I drove my deuce there, are you telling me that they would pull me over & not let me drive off since I dont have a CDL?

As long as it is for PERSONAL USE & not commercial use....the vehicle falls under "recreational vehicle" exemptions. No CDL or special class in required in VA where I live.

And as I have said in multiple post's, if you do get a leo from heck, and they write you up for a multitude of tickets, get a good lawyer.

 

[dm22630]

oh.....I agree.

A cop can write you for anything they want to at anytime. Get a crappy attitude with one on the side of the road & you will definitely be waiting there until his ticket book is empty.

I was just asking that if you are legal in YOUR state....would that carry over into other states? ("farm use" excluded)

 

[newt]

Sprusemt,
You are wrong about New Jersey. I went thru the commercial motor vehicle enforcement class at the New Jersey State Police Academy. I’ve dealt with New Jersey motor vehicle law everyday since 1984 when I became a cop. There is a big difference between that CDL publication you linked and the New Jersey state motor vehicle statutes and case law.


DM22630
As long as you meet your own State’s requirements for your Dl and Reg, you are good in any of the States that belong to the Interstate Compact Act under “touring privileges”. Other wise you would need 50 Dls and 50 Regs to travel around the country.

 

[sprucemt]

Sprusemt,
You are wrong about New Jersey. I went thru the commercial motor vehicle enforcement class at the New Jersey State Police Academy. I’ve dealt with New Jersey motor vehicle law everyday since 1984 when I became a cop. There is a big difference between that CDL publication you linked and the New Jersey state motor vehicle statutes and case law.


DM22630
As long as you meet your own State’s requirements for your Dl and Reg, you are good in any of the States that belong to the Interstate Compact Act under “touring privileges”. Other wise you would need 50 Dls and 50 Regs to travel around the country.

Not a problem. Please post a link to the correct data. There was no listing for non-commercial licenses on the drivers license site.

 

[sprucemt]

Just contacted the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commision by phone and confirmed what I have stated. There is no non-commercial licence for vehicles over 26001 and or combinations of that weight. Same as New York.

 

[Stalled]

Just great.That was what was keepin me from buying a 5 ton....lets see here..upcoming events button....

 

[newt]

It's a little more involved then calling a clerk at the MVC and taking what you are told for gospel. If you had called my office in the Traffic Safety Division you would have gotten my answer. (which by the way is correct). It comes down to case law, motor vehicle law and definitions. The answer you received from the CMV was not correct. A farmer with what is known as a class D or an “auto license” may drive a vehicle with a CGVW of over 26,001 in commerce as long as he is in 150 miles of his farm. For those non farmers, as long as you receive no compensation to include a deduction on income tax, trophy or other monetary gain the CDL laws do not apply. This is NJ case law and Gospel. It is even a Federal exception to the CMV act:

Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to — Part 390.3 (f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise

This is from our title 39 definitions in New Jersey.

"Commercial motor vehicle" or “CMV” includes every type of motor-driven vehicle used for commercial purposes on the highways, such as the transportation of goods, wares and merchandise. This term shall not include: vehicles run only upon rails or tracks and vehicles of the passenger car type used for touring purposes or the carrying of farm products or milk.

"Noncommercial truck" means every motor vehicle designed primarily for transportation of property, and which is not a "commercial vehicle."



Or look at this link state run site dealing with CMVs

http://www.lawrev.state.nj.us/title39/web registration 021108.doc

 

[sprucemt]

Commercial Driver Exemptions
Taxi drivers, ride-sharing van drivers, funeral procession drivers, operators of rescue, first-aid squad or firefighter apparatus, farmers hauling their own products and equipment within 150 miles of their farms, non-civilian operators of military equipment and operators of construction equipment not designed for operation on public roads are exempt and need not apply for a commercial driver license. Operators of recreational vehicles are also exempt, provided the vehicle is being operated only for personal use. (N.J.S.A. 39:3-10k, 39:3-10.11)

I am talking about the drivers license.

What my point has been right along is that there is no non commercial license for driving trucks and or combinations over 26001 lbs.

 

[newt]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/willysmb44/BeatDeadHorse.gif

 

[sprucemt]

New Jersey Title 39

39:3-8.1 Licensing of noncommercial trucks.

2.The director may license noncommercial trucks at the same weight fees set forth in Revised Statutes 39:3-20; provided, however, applicants for registration who have been issued handicapped person identification cards pursuant to section 2 of P.L.1949, c.280 (C.39:4-205) and are registering a noncommercial truck which has been equipped with a wheelchair lift for the handicapped, or any other specially designed mechanical device for the handicapped as designated by the director that specifically requires installation only in a noncommercial truck or van because of the device's dimensions, operating characteristics or manufacturer's installation requirements, shall pay the same weight fees set forth in R.S.39:3-8 for similarly modified passenger automobiles of the same model year. Application for such registration shall be made on a form to be furnished by the division and the application shall contain a statement to the effect that the vehicle so registered will not be used for the commercial transportation of goods, wares and merchandise, or for hire, and that vehicles so registered will not contain any advertising, signs, lettering, names or addresses on its exterior, excepting trademarks and labels of the manufacturer and dealer.

39:3-10.11 Definitions relative to commercial driver licenses.
"Commercial driver license" or "CDL" means a license issued in accordance with this act to a person authorizing the person to operate a certain class of commercial motor vehicle.
"Commercial motor vehicle" or "CMV" means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used or designed to transport passengers or property:

a.If the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds or displays a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds;

b.If the vehicle has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds inclusive of a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds;

c.If the vehicle is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver;

d.If the vehicle is designed to transport eight or more but less than 16 persons, including the driver, and is used to transport such persons for hire on a daily basis to and from places of employment;

e.If the vehicle is transporting or used in the transportation of hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with Subpart F. of 49 C.F.R. s.172, or the vehicle displays a hazardous material placard; or

f.If the vehicle is operated by, or under contract with, a public or governmental agency, or religious or other charitable organization or corporation, or is privately operated, and is used for the transportation of children to or from a school, school connected activity, day camp, summer day camp, summer residence camp, nursery school, child care center, preschool center or other similar places of education.
The chief administrator may, by regulation, include within this definition such other motor vehicles or combination of motor vehicles as he deems appropriate.

This term shall not include recreation vehicles.

This term shall not include motor vehicles designed to transport eight or more but less than sixteen persons, including the driver, which are owned and operated directly by businesses engaged in the practice of mortuary science when those vehicles are used exclusively for providing transportation related to the provision of funeral services and which shall not be used in that capacity at any time to pick up or discharge passengers to any airline terminal, train station or other transportation center, or for any purpose not directly related to the provision of funeral services.

Please note that in the body of the law above, it does not contains the terminology, "in commerce".
Below are the exemptions.

39:3-10k Exemption for operators of certain emergency, other equipment or vehicles.

2.Unless otherwise required by federal law or regulation, and subject to any rules and regulations promulgated pursuant to the provisions of this act, no (1) designated operator of firefighting apparatus, (2) non-civilian operator of a military vehicle owned or operated by the United States Department of Defense or the National Guard, (3) operator of a farm vehicle controlled and operated by a farmer, used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery or farm supplies to or from a farm, operated within 150 miles of a person's farm, and not used in the operation of a common or contract motor carrier, or (4) operator of emergency or rescue equipment operated for the purposes of a first aid, ambulance or rescue squad or for disaster control, shall be subject to the licensing provisions of the "Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986," Pub.L.99-570 (49 U.S.C. s.2701 et seq.).