RE: Re: RE: Check valve for oil filters?
Ok here is my $5 soap box speech on what I have learned while researching my oil filter change out... and what finally drove the mod to be a necessity rather than a luxury for oil changes. Sorry its so long but its a lot of information...
Dry start is a bad thing... no argument there and yes there about 50 different ways to fix the problem... Pre lube units using a solenoid like shown in the EBay auction will work on most vehicles but on a Deuce it would need to be about 2 gallons to charge the system with stock filters... They are not at all hard to build yourself and work off of the engines own oil pressure from the last run. Where it would work with enough volume Its just a guess but I don't think you could get full pressurization due to the engines filter design but it would give it a really good start... The Cat type systems would be a cool deal but I think is more costly than most of us could afford, someone could proably dig up the parts to make it work on their truck but as a group I don't think we would all be able to find the spare parts and pieces. The fuel pump idea wouldn't work... Not enough volume nor pressure to put a dent in the oil systems capacity. In every thing said on the subject now and in the past we are overlooking something that is far more important...
As I was saying, dry start was the biggest thing that sent me looking for an answer but it was not what prompted me to make the change... If I was going to modify my oil system I wanted to get some facts for people whom know more than I do... In this case Herc, Wix, Baldwin and some others. In researching ideas I found out that the LD was never intended to have canister filters... It was a military specification and were designed into the engine against the manufactures recommendations. This was common place in military thinking at the time and was also spec'ed to several other manufactures on various engines used in military application such as Cummings and Onan to name a few. The opposition against the filters was simple and also confirmed by Wix and Baldwin in the fact that it was far outdated and inferior filter technology. Where as a spin on of good quality will give you about 10 micron protection the canister type design will hold more around the 20 micron rage (at best) and fall from there. (thats horrible to say the least)
To back the claim I was given I was told to look at oil sampling on the LD's particularly the soot and metal levels which will always be considered high on a LD by testing standards when compared to any other diesel. This is due to soot in the oil which is an engines number one enemy and acts as sand paper on the wear (bearing) surfaces of the engine. Soot levels in the 20 micron range and above are the most damaging... which is right around the area where the stock canister filters fail to protect.
I was told the military's reasoning behind this was that a canister can be cleaned and or discarded on a battle field still leaving the engine functional but a spin on can not... Personally I think thats a little drastic in the since of stupid on the military's part as spin on filters will bypass if clogged but as I said this thinking was rather wide spread at the time and was dished out on many pieces of equipment.
Another example I was given in comparison was the civilian version of the LD which had a completely different oil system using spin on filters and in turn gives many more times the number of miles / hours of life in return. Where as a LD is used up in the 30-40K mile range and have a great tendency to auto eject pistons and or rods out the side of the block due to bearing failure and on a 22:1 compression ratio engine the tick tick tick goes to a knock knock knock to a kaboom in less than a few minutes of operating under normal conditions... That little detail is what pushed me into the idea of changing my filter system out!!!
Another point of interest that I learned and was brought up in the thread... Wix (and only wix) produced a spin on conversion for the 1133 filter on LD applications... and in total irony for us was discontinued from inventory over 20 years ago and was out of production for much longer.
In mulling over the information I was given and in looking at the newer filter technologies available I decided that my best course of action would be going to a commercially available spin on type system that was ether adapted to the stock bases or was plumbed from the stock bases, though much easier to remove the base and go from the block but I did not want to sacrifice the engines oil cooling system.
In studying the idea of spin on filters I was on a crash course learning curve... Full flow... Bypass... Micron ratings... Flow capacities... Pressures ratings... EEEeeekkkk... Here is the deal... All primary oil filters are full flow design, meaning that oil goes in and out at the rate it is pumped into the filter. Bypass filters are identical to full flow filters, some go to 5 micron but the functional difference is in the filters mounting base. All filters intake oil from the outside of the cartridge and return it into the engine from the center threaded hole of the filter. In any filter size if the flow and pressure are exceeded the filters ability to function your micron rating begins to drop... So on a bypass filter base this center hole is reduced in size to about 1/8th of an inch slowing oil flow through the filter and allowing the filter to collect more contaminants from the oil as it passes through. Bypass filters can be added to just about any engines oil system but when you are talking a 5 gallon system with horrible primary filtering capabilities your kinda wasting your time on that little .125 dia hole to make a dent in the over all health of your oil system.
Looking at commercial style filters in the size range needed for a Deuce none are of "anti back flow" design so I would still have 0 psi start issues... Something I felt was more prevalent was the filters upside down orientation which allows trash and sediment flow back into the oil pan after shut down and the shoved right back into the oil system upon start up... (something that is always skipped over on this topic) so I decided to fore go the idea of adapting spin on filters to the stock bases and look into remote mounted filters. In doing so I would reduce starting pressurization time and keep the crap in the filters actually IN the filter body.
This brought up another bit of irony to my search... No one produces a remote filter mounting base large enough for the oil systems requirements... Or if they do... I can not find it... You can buy remote filter bases all day long for Ford, Chevy and whomever else on the automotive market but nothing on the trucking market unless you go to a high dollar set up specifically designed and tailored to large trucks... Usually in the price range of $500+ and you are still left to your own devices for "how to" on plumbing it in (which is 90% of the work on a LD). There are some hydraulic filter bases that would meet the requirements but most have bypass valves installed in them or are not designed to use anything resembling a commercial sized "standard" oil filter part number in a low enough micron rating... Slightly annoying!!!
What I have opted to do in considering the above and looking at all of the options (with price being the driving factor) is go with a Wix PN 1970 which is a very common commercial truck and heavy equipment oil filter part number. The other nice detail is that this filter is also produced in paper, cramatic, and hybrid high mileage versions using the newer "spin flow" technology which filter in the 5 micron range giving a full flow system the same filtering abilities as a bypass system all in the same package. The choice is do I want to spend $45 on the high mileage or $14 on the standard jobber... My choice will be the high mileage but I think you see my point in having options and being able to find an oil filter without having to special order something in.
As for the base... Since I have not been able to find a spin on base that will take a filter in 1-1/8, 1-1/4, 1-3/8, 1-1/2, 1-3/4 or a 2" thread (all of the common commercial oil filter sizes) I opted for modifying a Wix bypass filter base into a full flow base that accepts 1-1/8th X16 thread filters allowing me to use the 1970 spin on number... It was the minimal amount of work and the least costly in parts to buy but giving the best of all available technologies in filtration.
As Kenny pointed out in the thread I have yet to mount these things up... At the moment I have to be patient in doing so until I get the other 5000 add on's in place on the truck and find out what fits where. In studying the oil housing and respecting the stock bypass valves the plumbing job is a little tricky but do'able with a little red neck + welder + hacksaw technology... I have / know several different methods for plumbing but I don't know which will work best for line routing and so on... But in no way will I compromise the cooler and or bypass system in place, when the set up is done I will post pics, facts, figures, methods, etc...
When I am done with that I may look into add on a pre oilier type system as shown on the EBay auction... Its a great idea to adding life to an engine but is also easy enough to build out of a 24 volt solenoid, relay, some lines, and a tank which could be a of suitable and much more reasonable size.
We all love to speculate and we all love to debate these ideas but it always seems we go off of "so and so" and "Joe blows" opinion about oil systems and seem to forget that all one really needs to do is ask the right questions to the right people... Herc, Wix, Baldwin, etc in this case and we will get answers that are less opinion and more fact. The crappy fact is that we have a great truck designed with a engine that is made to puke its guts after a very dependable but short life span... In all of the mods that we come up with and build into our toys one of the most important and most critical revolves around the oil system and as many have debated the pros and cons of the idea it turns out it is far more critical that anyone would have expected.
